Over 75 - phone finance - The giffgaff community

Over 75 - phone finance

johns01740

You do not advertise that persons over 75 years of age are not allowed to have contract payments over a number of months for the purchase of phones and can only purchase by a single payment . You should make this very clear in your literature at the outset of applications.

kath72

I presume that’s a ratesetter (the finance company) rule ... but yes, gg should be clear and upfront about any age restrictions

interesting that this should come up at the same time there are discussions about removing payback for under 16s !

endorphin

Hi @kath72 it's mentioned in the "2nd Note" here https://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Getting-started/Buying-a-giffgaff-phone-with-a-loan/ta-p/10724769#section4

mcilwraith

@endorphin wrote:

Hi @kath72 it's mentioned in the "2nd Note" here https://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Getting-started/Buying-a-giffgaff-phone-with-a-loan/ta-p/10724769#section4

another bit of useful information

i never knew that

woodyuk

As mentioned by @endorphin above,this information is shown in the relevant Knowledge Base article about buying a phone with a loan but I wonder how many buyers read that before starting the purchase process?

My guess would be only a tiny % unless their directed to that article via a help request in H&S so I agree that this information should be shown somewhere at the beginning of the purchase process,something like "in order to apply for a pay monthly phone you must be aged between 18 and 75".

endorphin

@woodyuk there is mention of having to be 18+ on the phone purchase pages and in the popup of the referenced Ratesetter's Terms but no mention there having to be under 75 (or is it 76)!

Simply changing the caveat to read "Applicants aged 18-75..." should suffice.

One for you @antonlg?

antonlg

Cheers @tommy_92 for this one as a representative of phone's team. Is there anything we can do here?

endorphin

@antonlg the Ratesetter's terms popup only mentions being 18+, the Loan Agreement popup does not mention age limits at all.

@antonlg wrote:

Is there anything we can do here?

I would suggest in this page https://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Getting-started/Buying-a-giffgaff-phone-with-a-loan/ta-p/10724769#section1 changing the bullet point which reads:

"You must be at least 18 to apply for a RateSetter loan;"

"You must be aged 18-75 to apply for a RateSetter loan;"

isabel1066

thank you @endorphin this I didn't know either.

jaymailsays

It is not umcommon to have age restrictions for lending or mortgage schemes but it is unusual not to include them within T&C. This is the relevant paragraph from Ratesetter. No mention of 75yr olds.

YOUR REPRESENTATIONS AND WARRANTIES

You represent and warrant the following to us:

2.1 You are 18 years of age or over and capable of taking responsibility for your own actions if you wish to lend or borrow through RateSetter.

@johns01740 Surprisingly the giffgaff T&C's make no mention of the age requirements of 18-75yr olds either.

giffgaff Member lending scheme

10.1. This Clause 10 only applies if you have applied for a loan facilitated by RateSetter's loan exchange service through giffgaff money, or when purchasing a device on giffgaff.com where such purchase is facilitated by such a loan.

10.2. The facilitation of your loan is provided as a service to you by RateSetter. In order to take out your loan you will have entered into a contract with RateSetter, and also a loan agreement with the lender you’re matched with via RateSetter’s exchange. Although we may provide you, via giffgaff.com, with information about your loan, this information is provided to us by RateSetter and you should contact RateSetter if you have any queries or wish to take any action in respect of the loan.

10.3. In order to assess whether or not RateSetter are able to provide you with a loan via its exchange, RateSetter will carry out an independent credit check on you and will use the exchange to identify if there is a suitable lender available. If RateSetter is not satisfied with the credit check results or if there is no suitable lender available to lend at the applicable interest rate, then RateSetter will not be able to facilitate a loan for you.

10.4. If you exercise your right to cancel a purchase paid with a loan, in accordance with Clause 9.4 above, or the returns policy, you will be deemed to have terminated your loan agreement arranged via RateSetter and we will return the related monies we originally received to fund your device (in the event of handset loans) to RateSetter. RateSetter will remain responsible for refunding any loan payments to you that you have already made

davidevans0000

@endorphin wrote:

Hi @kath72 it's mentioned in the "2nd Note" here https://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Getting-started/Buying-a-giffgaff-phone-with-a-loan/ta-p/10724769#section4

@endorphin cheers I looked for this but couldn't find it.

koshka

Definately needs clarifying. Well done highlighting this.

antonlg

@endorphin, just a heads up that I've confirmed this and I've updated the KB article.

endorphin

Thanks @antonlg and don't forget to chase up the phone guys to update the copy on the phone purchase pages similarly! 🙂

jaymailsays

@jaymailsays wrote:

It is not uncommon to have age restrictions for lending or mortgage schemes but it is unusual not to include them within T&C. This is the relevant paragraph from Ratesetter. No mention of 75yr olds.

YOUR REPRESENTATIONS AND WARRANTIES

You represent and warrant the following to us:

2.1 You are 18 years of age or over and capable of taking responsibility for your own actions if you wish to lend or borrow through RateSetter.

johns01740 Surprisingly the giffgaff T&C's make no mention of the age requirements of 18-75yr olds either.

giffgaff Member lending scheme

10.1. This Clause 10 only applies if you have applied for a loan facilitated by RateSetter's loan exchange service through giffgaff money, or when purchasing a device on giffgaff.com where such purchase is facilitated by such a loan.

10.2. The facilitation of your loan is provided as a service to you by RateSetter. In order to take out your loan you will have entered into a contract with RateSetter, and also a loan agreement with the lender you’re matched with via RateSetter’s exchange. Although we may provide you, via giffgaff.com, with information about your loan, this information is provided to us by RateSetter and you should contact RateSetter if you have any queries or wish to take any action in respect of the loan.

10.3. In order to assess whether or not RateSetter are able to provide you with a loan via its exchange, RateSetter will carry out an independent credit check on you and will use the exchange to identify if there is a suitable lender available. If RateSetter is not satisfied with the credit check results or if there is no suitable lender available to lend at the applicable interest rate, then RateSetter will not be able to facilitate a loan for you.

10.4. If you exercise your right to cancel a purchase paid with a loan, in accordance with Clause 9.4 above, or the returns policy, you will be deemed to have terminated your loan agreement arranged via RateSetter and we will return the related monies we originally received to fund your device (in the event of handset loans) to RateSetter. RateSetter will remain responsible for refunding any loan payments to you that you have already made

Hi @antonlg I can see you're busy around the community but in case you missed this I will repeat it again.

Now that timo has moved on, who deals with editing T&C?

Age 75 has been completely missed out from the Terms, which is concerning and could be seen as a grave ommission.

Whilst there is a mention of 18yr olds, as it is related to the minimum legal age for granting a loan, or more properly enforcing the contract, leaving out 75yr olds seems careless.

timwilliams25

After a certain age, you may well struggle to get credit, as you are perceived to be a higher risk of non repayment - due to higher likelihood of ill health or worse...

Often people's earnings are also lower when it comes to older age (75+), although many will earn more in penson than some workers - in which case, you could question why they need to take out a loan for an item upto £1000 max (as this is probably the most expensive phone on giffgaff - give or take a couple of quid.)

antonlg

@jaymailsays, it was always the Content team editing the T&Cs. However, depending on what needs to be edited, it might be a different team who owns that content. In this case, the Phones team should be fine with the changes before editing it.

jaymailsays

@timwilliams25 wrote:

After a certain age, you may well struggle to get credit, as you are perceived to be a higher risk of non repayment - due to higher likelihood of ill health or worse...

Often people's earnings are also lower when it comes to older age (75+), although many will earn more in penson than some workers - in which case, you could question why they need to take out a loan for an item upto £1000 max (as this is probably the most expensive phone on giffgaff - give or take a couple of quid.)

@timwilliams25 They (75+) might just want an expensive smart phone to help manage their mortgage app account.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/money/2016/apr/16/mortgage-new-offer-age-95&ved=2ahUKEwi-7Y2a44_dAhWkJcAKHdQECukQFjAGegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3MDzXFmAxLY1f68xMutNS2&ampcf=1

Often this group have the income without having disposable savings.

harrrrrry

@antonlg

At the same time, you might want to clarify the minimum age.

We frequently see mention that the applicant must have a 3 year credit history, which would mean a de-facto minimum age of 21. But I'm wondering if this is correct, or whether it is being misunderstood for the requirement for a 3 year address history which, unlike a credit history, could begin from the age of 15.

jaymailsays

antonlg wrote:

jaymailsays, it was always the Content team editing the T&Cs. However, depending on what needs to be edited, it might be a different team who owns that content. In this case, the Phones team should be fine with the changes before editing it.

@antonlg Oh great.

@harrrrrry I went through both sets of T&C and 18yrs not 21yrs is the minimum age specified. I was unable to see age 21 mentioned in any context with reference to ratesetter/giffgaff loans.