Falling out of love with Flarum

harrrrrry

ip633 Except your message won’t be the latest reply, and in bigger threads it could be buried by the time it’s restored.

Agreed. Elsewhere (probably in the preview version) I suggested the devs might invent a draft tag which could be assigned to new posts and threads as possibly a better way to temporarily hiding them than soft deleting it. But that would only help if, when removing the draft tag, the post becomes a "new" post rather than retaining its historic position in a thread.

Clearly that would require some development and testing, to ensure they worked as intended. But perhaps that will be considered when the main dust has settled

essie112mm

harrrrrry

Before Tuesday’s launch I read both the desktop basics thread and an exchange between roxy_r and blackfive460 about the introduction of soft delete.

https://community.giffgaff.com/d/23766912-flarum-quot-the-basics-quot-desktop-version

Soft delete
" Whilst we’re here, we have a great new function that we’re trialling called ‘soft delete’. This means, if it happens that you make a mistake and didn't want to post something, you can use the soft delete function to hide your post from being seen on the community. The community team will still be able to view it."
Apart from the fact that it’s a trial function and the obvious disadvantage pointed out by ip633, why would anyone want to leave behind a trail of soft deletes of posts available for the community team to read? I certainly wouldn’t entertain this. So I believe we need a stand-alone draft function back.

As regards Photography, a few weeks ago I had a PM exchange with an educator about the state of the old forum. I understand that Flarum now will not be the same Flarum we perhaps see in a year or so, but to launch it with no preview thumbnails was not the best move in my view. Since starting the thread I have already seen one of the best contributors to Photography saying that they will no longer visit the forum.

I have no clue who is responsible for the email highlighted in my OP. Perhaps I didn’t make myself clear, but my point was that it was obviously timed to launch with Flarum. And giffgaff must have signed it off.

harrrrrry

essie112mm why would anyone want to leave behind a trail of soft deletes of posts available for the community team to read?

It's probably necessary, for legal reasons, for the community team to be able to read deleted posts and it's highly likely that admins on most other forums can read "deleted" posts too.

Calling it "soft delete" does at least give you the possibility of understanding that the message still exists, which might not be so obvious to users of other forums where the message appears to be "deleted" but isn't.

ip633

I must admit that my enthusiasm for the new platform is already starting to wane. I suppose the acid test was always going to be the actual launch, and right now I’m feeling a little underwhelmed by the whole experience.

I can live with the fact that it’s “buggy” at the moment, and you’d expect that at this early stage of its development. But I fear that we’ll be spending a long time trying to iron out faults, and making the necessary improvements. Some people genuinely enjoy being a part of that process, but you have to be in it for the long haul, because that seems to be the giffgaff way.

I think it’s probably going to be easier for newcomers, because you’re starting from scratch, and probably more accepting of new features, and suchlike. But I notice that not all of our existing content (i.e. posting history) has survived the migration, which is disappointing to say the least.

essie112mm

I get the point of soft delete. But that's irrelevant because it is not what I want. I want a feature where I can create a draft which I can add to if or when I want or have time , and perhaps post or discard without having ever to post it in the first place. And, as you know, we could do so with Lithium.

Edited to add a comma!

jt_21

essie112mm I get the point of soft delete. But that's irrelevant because it is not what I want. I want a feature where I can create a draft which I can add to if or when I want or have time , and perhaps post or discard without having ever to post it in the first place. And, as you know, we could do so with Lithium.

Edited to add a comma!

Agree with draft 👍🏼

blackfive460

essie112mm

I wouldn't say that I'm particularly unhappy with Flarum and I expect that by this time next year it will all seem fine as I'll have found ways to make it work.

I do like the overall clean appearance and I can live with Tags replacing boards.
I really like being able to hide certain Tags from 'All discussions', ones that I have no interest in, and be able to see what's happening in the areas I am interested in easily; rather like the 'New posts' or 'Watched forums' features that other software provides.
I also like being able to mark everything as read with a single click.

However, I would say that there are 'features', if that's the right word, that I'm starting to dislike intensely.

As it's early days I'm not going to list them all but first and foremost among those dislikes is scrolling.
Ok, I can see where they are coming from. If I return to a long thread I should see the first unread post and can scroll from there but what happens when I then find a post I want to reply to but also need to refer to the OP or worse, another post 'somewhere' in the thread? Off we go scrolling again.
While displaying complete threads and loading them on demand sounds cool, there's a lot to be said for pagination and pagination is something that Flarum can do although it's not an out of the box feature.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a choice?

Now some of you are thinking that even with pagination, there's still going to be a need to do a lot of scrolling but for example consider that you can always right click/long press on a page number and load that in a new tab in your browser. That way you can have plenty of content on tap with the simple click of a tab. In any case, I always found reading through a long thread page by page a more natural way of working.

So, who's with me?
Forget Brexit, vote for pagination!

#Iwantpagination!

essie112mm

blackfive460

I just voted for pagination 😀 Do I get any payback?

Seriously though, I am glad that someone else dislikes all the scrolling. Can you imagine scrolling through some of the long threads? For me it's a sore point (literally) 😉

In a way it pains me (no pun intended 🤣 ) to be having this discussion as the team have worked very hard to launch Flarum and here we are at this early stage listing dislikes. But whilst it's important to acknowledge the advantages the platform brings it's also honest to say what we don't like about it.

ujo55

I don't find it to be the shiny new platform we were told we should be super excited about.
Dislike the scrolling, much more difficult to find a post in mid thread before, when perhaps I remembered it was on page 9 or 10.
Dislike the resultant waste of space on the rhs for the scroll bar.
Many good features of the old forum are missing with in my view little gain - even in speed.
Guess it will improve over time, my fear is it will just become more cluttered in appearance
So yes
#Iwantpagination!

shabazmoqsud

ujo55 i am happy and excited at the possibility of what the forum could become in future but to be honest i have to agree with you

until many things are not sorted i will still be active but less so.

this is far shy from being user friendly heck id go far as to say with the issues that lituim had for newer devices it was user friendly and easy to you.

now we have to start from the beginning all over again.

ukrun

ujo55 I've understand it almost 70%

shabazmoqsud

essie112mm the scrolling is a nightmare. it makes it difficult to follow, read or reply to posts.

ip633

I mentioned this in the dedicated feedback thread, but it does concern me that private messages that I’d previously deleted have somehow been resurrected following the migration. Now that they are displayed as being “private discussions”, we have the option to “soft delete” or edit, but if it’s a received message you can only flag it (i.e. report it).

I’d prefer to see a conventional inbox / outbox arrangement. But you should always be able to permanently delete those messages. Trust me, I never kept any of those “ranking up” messages from Gregg 😉, but some of them have come back, and it seems that I’m stuck with them 😐️.

But it does raise serious questions about GDPR, when data that we thought we were deleting is still being retained. Some of those private discussions were about issues that I’d prefer to forget, so I’d rather not be reminded of them.

On a lighter note, check the emojis for ”confused”, or “frustrated”, as neither seem to be an accurate representation of the mood that they’re trying to convey. They just look sad.

Edit: sometimes I’m Like a dog with a bone, but I did finally get an answer to my question, even if it’s not entirely satisfactory:

https://community.giffgaff.com/d/23769708-new-community-platform-boards-forums-vs-tags/14

jaymailsays

shabazmoqsud essie112mm the scrolling is a nightmare. it makes it difficult to follow, read or reply to posts.

There is a shortcut to scrolling up or down but it is a bit of a lucky dip. At the top of the page,where it might say '1 of 50 posts' if you click on it, a slider appears in the left hand margin which allows instant access to first and last and anything inbetween.

chand311

shabazmoqsud yes its horrible mate. There should be links to switch any page number like older version.

chand311

Yes it will take a bit time to get familiar with new flarum.

anth006

essie112mm I do agree with you. I like the overall look of the new forum and it's easy to find where I want to be.

The scrolling though is tedious as with only seeing one or two (if short) posts on a page.

Photography as you say is disappointing and just doesn't work very well without thumbnails. I am hopeful however that this can be improved.

Edit to say I also miss seeing who gave kudos (now reaction) as good to see who is interacting with a thread even though they may not post.

peterhall0012

Work's great for me on my android phone there's a couple of glitches but when they get fixed the forum will be awesome.

ip633

I probably should post this in the actual feedback thread, but that's already turning into a "megathread", and we're back to the usual situation of concerns not always being addressed (or even acknowledged).

But on the issue of scrolling, do we really need to see the actual posts in our profile?

All you really need is the thread title, and the opening line of your post (just how it used to be on Lithium). If we stay with the current scrolling format, and we do manage to regain access to our entire posting history, just imagine how long it's going to take to find some of your older posts.

harrrrrry

ip633 concerns not always being addressed (or even acknowledged).

I'm sure all the points will be collated as long as they're somewhere reasonably appropriate. Some will be dealt with sooner than others -- depending on ease of implementation and importance. Some may not be possible.

ip633

harrrrrry I hope you’re right, but my cynicism is based on previous experience of how feedback is usually handled.

That’s not a criticism of staff necessarily, as it’s inevitable that some feedback will slip through the net, particularly with longer discussion threads, and that’s one reason why discussion groups are usually a more efficient way of collating that information.

I’m just being honest 😉

germansheppard234

ip633 People don’t always read threads in their entirety, and I think they’ll be even less likely to with this never-ending scrolling format.

I have only just found out that to do back without scrolling go to top of page on thread you on it says like 1 of 50 posts click on it and function is there to go back or forward to different posts
Cheers

piglet1902

ip633 honesty..now that will confuse them

blackfive460

While I still dislike all the scrolling and #I wantpagination there's something else that I'm really missing.

I really miss not seeing who started a thread. For me, that's far more important than seeing who made the most recent post.

Think about it for a minute, there may be a thread started by staff but all we are seeing is that the latest post was made by some joker called @blacksomething or whoever and, if I actually visit the thread, I'll eventually find that out when I've scrolled far enough to get to the end.

So, the important aspects of displaying threads for me are seeing who started it, seeing what Tag it has, seeing that it's been updated since I last visited it, seeing how many posts there are and how many are unread.
Currently, aside from not seeing the thread stater I'm also not seeing how many posts are unread unless I actually visit.

z201205

blackfive460 I'm also not seeing how many posts are unread unless I actually visit.

I see that number on the right hand side in bold. If it's not bold, it's the total number of posts.

ip633

blackfive460 I really miss not seeing who started a thread. For me, that's far more important than seeing who made the most recent post.

I agree, it would be useful to see the OP’s username when you’re browsing the latest discussions. Avatars aren’t always a reliable indicator, because people are often inclined to change them. And of course, many of us haven’t even uploaded an avatar, as there still aren’t any default community images to play around with.

But they place so much focus on trying to get the visuals right, that they often overlook the practical issues.

suppers_ready

blackfive460 I agree, it would be more useful to see who started the thread, rather than the last post. You can hover over the avatar (or long press on mobile) and that will tell you who started the thread and when.

Re: scrolling. I posted this the other day in another thread if it's of any help......

If you are on desktop there is a scroll bar on the right of the screen. At the top it says Original Post and at the bottom it says Now. If you click on either of these words it takes you to the start of the thread, or the last post in the thread respectively.

On mobile you can bring up the scroll bar from within a thread by tapping the post numbers that are visible in the top centre of each thread. The same procedure applies.

In both cases you can drag and drop the slider to anywhere in the thread.

ujo55

blackfive460
Totally agree
Who started the thread is far more important that the last poster.
Scrolling is a real bugbear.

blackfive460

z201205

z201205 I see that number on the right hand side in bold. If it's not bold, it's the total number of posts

Yes, I see I was wrong in what I thought that number indicated but I'd still prefer to see the total number of posts as well as how many, if any, are unread.