Changes to numbers starting 070 on 1 October 2019

ruariodegaard

EE have also said they are reducing their charges, so giffgaff need to step it up.

ruariodegaard

It also looks likely that O2 will drop prices on 070 soon

ian011

Plusnet Mobile has simply included 070 calls within inclusive allowances.
BT Mobile is now charging 5p per minute to call all 070 numbers at all times.

harrrrrry

ian011 BT Mobile is now charging 5p per minute to call all 070 numbers at all times.

Is that more than they are charging for normal mobiles?

If it is, then it's positive proof that ofcom behaved recklessly and negligently in failing to use elementary common sense. Ofcom could and should have specified at the outset that after the change, all 070 numbers must be treated exactly the same as normal mobiles and included in bundles where applicable -- the same as it has previously specified that 03x numbers must be treated exacly the same as 01x and 02x numbers.

jaymailsays much like what happened with payforit.

Payforit is slightly different. Networks can falsely claim they cannot provide the feature to allow users to globally block payforit charges, even though PSA has at times said that they can -- and some networks appear to be giving the option to do it.

The problem is that payforit is a complex mechanism which is hard for the public to understand. So yes, networks think they can get away with falsely claiming they "cannot" block these charges, and most people aren't able to argue about it.

But with 070, its abundantly clear that there is no reason apart from grossly excessive profiteering to continue charging 50p per minute for a service that is now costing the network no more than ordinary calls.

ruariodegaard

Let's hope that giffgaff aren't the last one to act

z201205

ruariodegaard they tend to be

guy_ow

Hey folks

Just an update for you (not much has changed yet), we have chased this again today, and as soon as I find out more, I'll be back to let you know. I've not forgotten about this at all.

Cheers
Guy

ian011

There was a full twelve months notice from Ofcom.
Perhaps the notice period should be very much longer so as to ensure the changes actually happen?
Or, perhaps the notice period was far too long and it was put off for eleven months, by which time the person who had noted it had long since moved on to another job,? Perhaps notice periods should be just a couple of months?

jaymailsays

Why would O2/giffgaff be nudged into commercial reaction that reduces their profitability? I foresee no changes until they are named and shamed in the media, much like what happened with payforit.

Most consumers avoid 070 numbers, once bitten twice shy.

jaymailsays

harrrrrry
Not really! It took years but payforit has effectively been closed off from taking your giffgaff credit, unless you agree.

Similarly we initiate 070 calls and generally understand and agree the costs.

t_will

Hi all, thanks for waiting on a response to this. This afternoon, we made some changes to the pricing of calls to these numbers to reflect these regulations on wholesalers. After the change, calls to these numbers now cost the same as they would when calling any mobile number - if you have a goodybag, they will come from your minutes, and if not, you'll be charged the same amount from your credit balance.

The pricing page is in the process of being changed as we speak, so that everyone's got the info they need.

mcilwraith

t_will all good news then

jaymailsays

t_will
Xmas came early. 🎄

endorphin

t_will better late than never! 🙂

jaymailsays

t_will After the change, calls to these numbers now cost the same as they would when calling any mobile number - if you have a goodybag, they will come from your minutes, and if not, you'll be charged the same amount from your credit balance.

Thanks for updating the 070 (paygo/inclusive minutes) pricing content.

Is it possible to have clarification on the following please?

"Calls to 055, 056, 070 and 076 numbers are charged in one minute increments."
https://giffgaff.com/pricing
Does that mean that the per second mobile/fixed line billing, we enjoy after the first minute, has been abandoned for 070 personal numbers, or just that this bit of content concerning 070 slipped through the net?

the_bookie

ian011

t_will

Thankyou that is fantastic news with
the 070 calls & they can be used also
from goodie bag minutes .

antonlg

jaymailsays

I don't remember if there was another thread but to clarify if the charge for 070 is per minute/per second: it is charged in one second increments after the first minute. The pricing page was updated last week. (we have deleted 070 from the list of numbers that are charged in 1 minute increments).

Also - as a reminder regarding the pricing page, the team owning it from a technical perspective is looking at a total rethink of this page. I'm confident that once they are getting close to having a concrete plan, they'll come and share their ideas so we can work together.

ian011

I suspect that aspect either hasn't changed in the system or it has changed but that piece of text has been overlooked. Clarification is needed to be sure.

jaymailsays

ian011 Clarification is needed to be sure.

Reversing the Best Answer (temporarily) might help get what is needed.

ian011 Will I still have to be banging on about the entries in the first three sections of the price list in 2022?

Probably

ian011

While on the subject of the price list, I pressed giffgaff for more than three years to ensure that every entry included the relevant prefixes to make it easy to use but I see the price list has now gone backwards with many prefixes missing again.

Example: You want to call a number starting 0345. Look in the current price list. The prefix 03 isn't mentioned anywhere at all. For clarity, every entry should include the relevant prefixes.

"Calls to" UK "landines" starting 01 and 02 and non-geographic numbers starting 03 ...
"Calls to personal numbers starting 070" and "UK mobiles" starting 071 to 075 & 077 to 079 ...
"Call forwarding" to UK landlines and UK mobiles ...

The words in quotes are in the price list.
The words not in quotes are missing from the price list.
Expanding the wording could be done in three entries in place of the current two.

Additionally, the information for 0800 and 0808 numbers should not be in the top two sections. In doing so, it currently implies that free calls are part of the goodybag offering. This would be false advertising as it is Ofcom regulations that ensure these calls are always free, not giffgaff's generosity.

The details for 070 numbers are shown in the third entry in the first section. Can anyone explain why they are in a different position (fifth!) in the second section? It is almost as if there is a policy to make stuff confusing on purpose. Additionally, putting entries in numerical order makes it easier to find what you are looking for and easier to read and understand.

Suggested wording for the first two sections...

Calls, texts and call forwarding to giffgaff numbers ...
Calls to UK landines starting 01 and 02 and non-geographic numbers starting 03 ...
Calls to personal numbers starting 070 and UK mobiles starting 071 to 075 and 077 to 079 ...
Call forwarding to UK landlines and UK mobiles ...
Texts to UK mobiles and UK landlines ...
Mobile data ...
Voicemail (443) ...

That would be the same number of entries as it is now.

Five years has elapsed since I first mentioned that the list of CI and IoM prefixes needs to go in the price list in the same style as the list of "non-mobile" numbers. That still hasn't happened.

The third section of the price list could be much clearer with some of the entries in a slightly different order and with slightly different wording ...

Calls and texts to landlines in Channel Islands and Isle of Man (for detailed listing click here) ...
Calls and texts to mobiles in Channel Islands and Isle of Man (for detailed listing click here) ...
"non-mobile" 07 numbers (for detailed listing click here) ...
Calls to freephone numbers starting 0800, 0808 ...
Calls to non-geographic numbers starting 084, 087, 09, 118. The call cost will be our Access Charge plus the Service Charge of the organisation being called. (More info) ...
Calls to mobile shortcodes (as advised by service provider) ...
Sending text messages to mobile shortcodes More info ...
Receiving premium texts from mobile shortcodes (price set by service provider). More info ...
Picture messages (MMS) to giffgaff and other mobiles (max 300KB) ...
Video calls to other mobiles ...

Take a look at the "Other UK numbers" section of the price list. That is what clarity looks like, but it took almost three years to persuade giffgaff to action it that way. Will I still have to be banging on about the entries in the first three sections of the price list in 2022?

jesi23

jaymailsays ian011 Clarification is needed to be sure.

Reversing the Best Answer (temporarily) might help get what is needed

Or even starting a New Discussion using these points: even if they then merge it with this thread, it would call attention to it. 🤡