Is it racist to use the term Kraut?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/leave-eu-merkel-tweet-brexit-world-war-germany-kraut-arron-banks-a9148356.html Leave.EU has made a rare apolo...

extreme_one · 2019-10-09T11:44:29+00:00

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/leave-eu-merkel-tweet-brexit-world-war-germany-kraut-arron-banks-a9148356.html Leave.EU has made a rare apolo...

Is it racist to use the term Kraut?

vickyjakesmum

extreme_one it's a term I might use in my home, not sure if i'yd say it in the company of Germans, it's the same as calling Americans yanks, or the Australians calling us Poms.

I personally don't feel it's racist, but who knows? Maybe it is.

andyslc

extreme_one can the Germans be described as a race? It could be argued, yes they are. Is “kraut” a derogatory term? Yes. Did the statement by Banks infer British superiority over the “krauts”? Yes it did.

Kinda ticking the “racism by definition” boxes isn’t it?

Interestingly and as an aside the ASA found a 2001 adverts use of the word “Kraut” to be light hearted and not racist - the context was in promoting the quality of a German company’s goods. Conversely another independent body ruled an advert using the term “frog” was racist (not sure of context).

jimvee288

Sour kraut's does it mean theyr'e Cabbage like?

starbuck35

extreme_one people use any thing as being racist

johnnypie

Yes, it is. It's never the word itself / in isolation which is racist, it is the intent behind its use. It is used as an insulting, derogatory term, and this makes it racist.

extreme_one

Interesting to hear the argument that as the Germans aren't a race it can't be racist.

Didn't someone a few years back claim the Germans were a race? I believe they defined themselves as Aryan, even went as far as branding themselves the master race.

In any case, racist or not, the term certainly isn't used in kindness and therefore shouldn't be used at all, especially by a politically influential group.

haridus

extreme_one Interesting to hear the argument that as the Germans aren't a race it can't be racist.

Didn't someone a few years back claim the Germans were a race? I believe they defined themselves as Aryan, even went as far as branding themselves the master race.

I thought this thread was "Is it racist to use the term Kraut?"

andyslc

extreme_one regarding race I would argue that the Germanic people, as a race goes back to at least the Middle Ages. In modern terms it’s possible to argue nationality at a push but the context used by Banks puts it on rocky ground.

I saw one news outlet describe it as xenophobic but it’s not phobic it’s hateful. A good point was made regarding the target audience for the tweet which was probably in this country. The problem with that is that it also encourages such behaviour and ideas which leads to more of the same.

Im liking some of the more considered posts on this thread, not necessarily how I expected the thread to go.

acetech

Racist or not, the offensiveness of a word can generally be found in its intent (the context in which it is used).

Granted offense is often taken when not intended, however in this context I personally find the use unnecessary.

Though that's possibly more to target a following as opposed to targeting the Germans (pure guess). If I'm correct I can still see how it could be taken as offensive, which could also explain why they may have apologised if they didn't intend to offend.

If I'm not correct and the person who said it was doing so to offend the Germans intentionally then they should apologise and perhaps their public position be considered.

I'm in no way defending either party as I do not know enough about the specific situation. Just trying to throw some light on why they may apologise if offence was not intended.

standardbearer

When I was on holiday a young German couple were passing and I heard them say little Englander.
They were right of course one reason why I did not quote the Major in Fawlty Towers when he heard the Germans were coming.
"Ger Ger Germans Faulty, I dont like Germans.
A bunch of Krauts !!"

baconbutty

Not racist but it's insulting and childish imo.

extreme_one

andyslc Im liking some of the more considered posts on this thread, not necessarily how I expected the thread to go.

I agree. I'm particularly interested in the comments regarding intent as that, to me, seems to be the crux of the issue.

alicantesteve

The problem with some in society is that we have groups of bored individuals who arnt happy unless they are being offended by anything and everything on their own sad behalf or a third parties behalf in order to fulfil some missing part of their lives.
The continual misuse of calling everything racist has had the effect that now true racism is often ignored or not dealt with as robustly as it should be due to the fact that these morons have complained and complained about the slightest murmur and have overloaded the system along with everyone else’s heads
Calling Germans Krauts,Eric’s,Boxheads,Jerries,Herman’s is not racist,nor against the law. Now should you happen to call someone a Nazi,Adolf,carry out various salutes in Germany you have a problem if the police see you or you are reported as that sort of conduct is against the law and arrestable.
Having spent 14 years in Germany and having many German friends I can assure you the majority will not be offended by the term Kraut.
The Germans have a term for those from the U.K. Insel Affe or Island Monkey a term used a lot when Brits are around. Do I get offended?? No.
As for Banks and his group using the word,so what. It seems there are still those on here that are very selective about what some can say and others can’t.

andyslc

alicantesteve but again it’s down to context. Do you not agree that to many Germans the constant reminder of Germany’s involvement in two world wars and their application to today’s Germany is a thorny and contemptuous issue?

andyslc

Just for some clarity this is the definition of racism:

Hatred, rivalry or bad feeling between races
Belief in the inherent superiority of some races over others, usu with the implication of a right to be dominant
Discriminative treatment based on such belief

Whereas xenophobia:

Fear or hatred of foreigners and foreign things

Maybe xenophobic is the best descriptor in this case after all?

neil40

I think she has been one of the more friendly & helpful of the EU states.
That tweet or statement was wrong in every way.

techiebloke

Derogatory terms are unacceptable but it seems more and more is becoming acceptable provided it's pro brexit.

It's shameful.

williamwalker

extreme_one
This is everywhere it's like a disease, like a psychopathic scale.
On the low scale I watched come dine with me the other day.
They had a Mexican night everybody turned up with Mexican sombreros moustaches maracas.
Now what if they had a Caribbean night and everybody turned up you know what I'm going to say.
However as you mentioned race and them thinking they were above everyone else the Aryan race.
What chance have people got when there are people like this and what if it is actually true.
They say Germany is heading into a recession when people go into a recession they tend not to be as nice.

stephenpperry

extreme_one leave.eu is nasty.

andishdi

The best part of this…? The irony.

You’re not allowed to use the term “kraut” and soon depicting a Frenchman in a beret will be a hate crime - any type of stereotyping will be considered an offense .

… Unless you happen to be stereotyping someone by eliciting some kind of racist or bigoted connotation from their comments… In those circumstances it’s absolutely fine… 🤣

Hypocrisy at its finest and yet more proof that the self-destructive Left are their own worst enemy.

extreme_one

andishdi I'm not sure what you're inferring. It's almost as though you're claiming that it's not OK to call someone a racist as that might offend them?