Wapstar

richybhoy36

Are giffgaff able to do anything about our members getting messages from wapstar ! As it's really annoying our members and I don't think it's fair !

stephenpperry

richybhoy36 what’s wapster?

mrbond007

richybhoy36
Never heard of them

bazthebear2

richybhoy36 Never heard of them.

georgecooksey24

richybhoy36 bunch of scammers

z201205

Wapstar seems to be subject of many complaints since the introduction of the extra step required for payforit. They seem to be ignoring that so perhaps giffgaff/O2 should be banning them as a payforit merchant.

muggles708

z201205
Couldn't agree with you more.
So many complaints: https://community.giffgaff.com/all?sort=latest&q=wapstar
Unfortunately giffgaff seem to put the protection of members below the 30% profit they make from these scam charges. They have no incentive to "do the right thing" as it will cost them money!
Wapstar is run by Remote Games Ltd, a company that ha previously been fined by the regulator for this type of fraud.. https://psauthority.org.uk/for-business/adjudications/2015/2/remote-games-ltd-18639-adjudication-by-consent-adaf414e-59a1-e411-a529-00155d051116

This has been going on for several months, with more and more members affected. I wrote to giffgaff about this in June, and received the usual condescending reply to the effect that nothing is wrong. The evidence on this forum suggests otherwise.

All affected consumers should lodge a complaint with the Phone-paid Services Authority. https://psauthority.org.uk/for-consumers/report-an-issue and make a formal complaint to giffgaff about this scam. It is a disgrace that giffgaff collude with companies like Remote Games Ltd to defraud members (and profit from that fraud).

peterhall0012

A right bunch of scammers that company.

maxmario

muggles708

I reported that issue to PSA - thank you for useful links

allan1954

Wapstar scammed my son on another network and he never got his money back.

muggles708

allan1954 Wapstar scammed my son on another network and he never got his money back.

Anyone scammed by Remote Games Ltd (Wapstar) should make sure they get a FULL refund. Legally, the burden of proof lies with the "service provider" to prove that the consumer consented to the charges. Many consumers have successfully used the Small Claims procedure to recover their stolen money. Information about how to do this is on the payforitsucks.co.uk website.

parvathyl

allan1954 same situation here!

andy69

I knew putting in the extra step on the merchant's side rather than the network's side was a mistake. It's a shame that @holly_bc is no longer working for giffgaff as she said that she would make sure that rogue merchants would be taken to task.

jaymailsays

andy69 @holly_bc is no longer working for giffgaff as she said that she would make sure that rogue merchants would be taken to task.

Not sure about that, as Holly worked incredibly intensely over in Labs and taking to task, rogue merchants would potentially land instead on the gaffer's desk. Be an interesting Q&A at the planned forthcoming HQ party celebrations though.

richybhoy36

stephenpperry It's a company that's sending out messages to people saying that they have signed up for their services and are charging £4.50 for the privilege! :-(

muggles708

stephenpperry what’s wapster?

Wapstar is a Payforit scam. If you don't know about these scams, take a look at this research comissioned by BBC Watchdog. https://www.surecloud.com/sc-blog/bbc-watchdog-research-paper-payforit

andy69

Adding @_kara_ at dez_d's suggestion.

andy69

jaymailsays one of my labs ideas was marked as implemented. As it was about requiring 2fa for payforit and what has been implemented is on the merchants' side and not the network's, I queried it with her. She said that she had spoken to Ben and if merchants didn't play ball they would be taken to task. She volunteered to be copied in to forum threads such as this so she could highlight it to the relevant people within giffgaff so that the merchant would be taken to task.

_kara_

Hi folks. I'm looking into this at the moment and will keep you all updated on this thread. Thank you @richybhoy36 for flagging this up to us.

richybhoy36

_kara_ Hi that's brilliant if giffgaff were able to help with this !

_kara_

Hi folks. Thank you so much for your patience here. We have done some investigations and have not been able to find any wrongdoing on the part of Wapstar from the cases that were referred to us. This said we will always be happy to look at cases that members raise to us so please raise a case with the agents if you suspect you've been subscribed to any pay-for-it service without confirming that subscription - as is now required.
https://support2.giffgaff.com/app/ask/Account-misuse-and-security-issues/Account-misuse-and-security-issues/form/

jaymailsays

_kara_
Thanks for following up on this Kara.

Unfortunately Wapstar are circumnavigating the new giffgaff rules. By offering a free 24hr trial by SMS, they subscribe members, during the 25th hour, without providing a verification code? Texts are not reliable and can be easily missed by users, during the so called free 24hr trial, which members never signed up for anyway.

The BBC1 consumer programme Watchdog, have not closed their investigations into 'payforit' the last thing we all want, is giffgaff being asked to justify the defence of 24hr free trials, live on tv?
Jay

muggles708

_kara_ Hi folks. Thank you so much for your patience here. We have done some investigations and have not been able to find any wrongdoing on the part of Wapstar from the cases that were referred to us. This said we will always be happy to look at cases that members raise to us so please raise a case with the agents if you suspect you've been subscribed to any pay-for-it service without confirming that subscription - as is now required.

Can you clarify the nature of your investigations? I assume that Remote Games Ltd have been asked to supply you with details of the consent obtained for the disputed charges, Did these include:
• Screenshots of the subscription workflow where the member signed up for the "service".
• A description of what the "service" provides and how the member is alleged to have accessed itl?
• Any evidence that after supposedly signing up for the service, the member actually used it
• The complete web server log of the subscription, including the User Agent strings containing all device details (browser, device type, device IP address) together with dates and times.
• If the subscription started after 11th May 2019, auditable proof of the additional authentication used (as required to comply with giffgaff rules)
• Details of the Accredited Payment Intermediary(API) which handled the members payment. In the case of Wapstar I believe this to be ImiMobile (Tap2Bill)
• Details of the company’s disputes procedure, including any ADR scheme the member can refer the matter to if they still dispute the charges..
Can you confirm that these details were provided to you, that they were subsequently discussed with the affected members, and that those members are satisfied t=with the outcome of the investigation?

giffgaff have previously claimed to have investigated charges like these and have failed to find a problem, probably because they failed to ask the right questions. The regulator has subsequently found the charges to be fraudulent.
It would be embarassing for giffgaff if, after having found no problem, the PSA subsequently found Remote Games Ltd to be at fault (as they have already in other cases).

muggles708

_kara_
Hi @_kara_ , Any chance of a further update on this? Members are reporting that giffgaff are not properly investigating these cases and are not being provided with the proof required to make the charges lawful.

Under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013, the burden of proof rests with the service provider and not with consumer. giffgaff should not be passing unlawful charges on to their members.
So far I have seen no evidence of any "investigation" in to the cause of this cluster of complaints. I am aware of a significant number of complaints, both on this forum and through the payforitsucks website. None of these complainants has been provided with proof of consent to charge.
Without going into detail of any specific cases, can you tell us what you mean when you say you have done "some investigations"? In particular, were giffgaff provided with proof that the charges were lawful? If so, why was this information not provided to the complainants?

The good news is that complaints about this "service" now seem to have abated. suggesting that whatever this company was doing has now ceased. However, giffgaff ought to investigate, as members have been left out of pocket, and the mechanism used to produce these fraudulent charges remains unknown, and could be used again.

jaymailsays

After reading @muggles708 link, it is even more worrying. It appears that if you allow your phone to be used as a hotspot, the person you allow, might subscribe to payforit, but it could be your account that got charged.
https://www.surecloud.com/sc-blog/bbc-watchdog-research-paper-payforit