This is the face of drug criminality, & this is just the west midlands,

caro120

if they just had mental health services that helped in prompt and thorough manner then that would save a lot of people getting drawn into self-destructive lifestyles.

we need housing, work, justice, clean air and seas, decent education and health support... the longer the decline goes on the more the backlog of tasks that need fulfilling and this applies to everyone..

caro120

andyslc

we had a good team and were working hard. I left in end cos needed more hours and then the tender went out to another group, it all needs to be set up again, do kids get continuity? must cost more to do all that than saved, nothing makes sense..

caro120

andyslc

how would you say drug users are viewed?

i see them as victims, they might seem happy but the substances are masking the tears? some are so out of it is hard to know who they were..

maybe fun at time but always payback with everything for sure..

andyslc

caro120 depends on the drugs used and their reason for use. That doesn’t mean I think some should be criminalised and others not, just that the world is grey not black and white. I’m in favour of decriminalisation not legalisation (except for medical use and possibly lower strength traditional cannabis - skunk is a scourge)

Our current laws only views them in black and white terms ie criminals who deserve punishment not treatment. I dare say many MPs from the right of politics probably feel the same

nefarius

andyslc As soon as you mentioned The Conservatives I thought of cuts and a subsequent failure in service. 😂

caro120

andyslc

totally agree!

not sure of the current situation but think things have changed a little, it was originally tolerated, people turned a blind eye - when you see episode of Poirot around opium smoking, it is something that someone else did and they were left to get on with it? Slight bemusement.

then panic in society as dope was associated with rebellion or 'being different' - it might change things. People quite happy to purchase art or music created with the influence but people banged up for very little. I knew someone said he took the rap for a brothers pipe years ago, he had brief spell inside and it made his life very difficult for a bit.

Then it got to stage that a small amount of cannabis was just confiscated from what I've heard - didn't press charges, now we get the police themselves wanting to decriminalise stuff. Muddled change it seems to me.

In the mean time they prescribe opiates, codeine, antidepressants, stuff that is addictive. It depends who is profiting from sale of drugs I guess. Booze creates more sorrow than a lot of things I think.

nefarius

andyslc I agree that they should be decriminalised, not legalised.

Regards

A. Druglord

williamwalker

only_justme65
The problem is they haven't even found a solution for the worst drug of all that causes crime,violence, divides families,
And takes up such a large amount of police time especially at weekends.
They even advertise alcohol on TV.

caro120

williamwalker

troub is has been around for centuries, probably millenia and slow killer - so people get born with dependencies.

you just broke my daydream! was thinking earlier about conception when people drunk, does that make a child more likely to grow up with any problem including alcoholism.. they say smoking near a pregnant women will alter the neural system of the foetus - makes you wonder...

bazthebear2

only_justme65 This happens all over the UK.

andyslc

@nefarius illegal, legalised or decriminalised works for me. Just as long as people keep using I ll still have my cartel 😉

Regards

A. Druglord

nefarius

andyslc P is £250 a gram here. Sell it in the chemist for a tenner 😉

andyslc

nefarius you couldn’t make it for that and we certainly wouldn’t want to i this country. There’s not the market for it, not when other drugs are so cheap. 🤪

nefarius

andyslc How much does it cost to make?
Mephedrone was 6 quid a gram in the shops before it was made illegal. It's almost the same.
Amphetamine is a tenner a gram in the UK.

Mephedrone - C11H15NO
Methamphetamine - C10H15N
Amphetamine - C9H13N

andyslc

nefarius quite a lot when, as a legal option it has to be licensed, bought from a proper manufacturer with all those associated costs, if imported there will be some tax, plus any tax the government will want to put on to offset costs to NHS of treating people, chemists profit and costs, transportation costs.

Actually you’ve just made my point. If drugs are that cheap there’s no way government could compete on cost because clearly there are significant margins that can be cut by dealers to undercut any legal option.

nefarius

andyslc That's my point. If it can be sold at a profit for six quid, which it was the drug barons would take a colossal hit.
Mephedrone was 6 quid a gram including vat and the business also paid income tax on it.
People in NZ spend their whole life stealing from shops and depriving their children to pay 250 quid a gram and the dealers are creaming it in.
There's only currently one winner. The dealers.

andyslc

nefarius the mephedrone sold wasn’t licensed though. It was often imported from China. Once you start licensing things and insisting on qc, labelling, warnings etc the cost is going to go up.

You chose well with your example though because when they made mephedrone illegal the price shot up and dealers started cutting it with baking soda etc. The biggest effect it would appear though (because use tailed off when it became illegal) was that it helped the cocaine dealers who had, until its ban been struggling with the competition. At least according to this article which I found interesting:

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/9aa53a/the-story-of-mephedrone-the-party-drug-that-boomed-and-went-bust

basil1921

Governments find drugs and the drug trade useful for preventing people revolting against the system.

nefarius

This is interesting andyslc

One kilo of meth costs around $1,500 to make in West Africa but sells for around $150,000 in Japan.

Meth

tess_yvonne

End of the day SOME people have the choice and they still deal drugs or take them some people only know that way of life.
I am qualified in helping people with substance misuse so ive seen and had first hand experience with drugs and i think they should make weed legal as it means more money from tax for everyone and the police wont have to waste their time on someone who was found with a joint.

andyslc

tess_yvonne is it took the higher strength skunk of the streets then it could well be good move.

caro120

tess_yvonne

put the money into testing drivers and implementing bans cos it's not fair to drive when tired let alone under influence

weed is said to be a lot stronger than it used to be and with GM can they incorporate other plant chemicals into it to give a bigger hit or make it addictive? it was a case of psychological addiction, is it now physical addiction? have chatted to people that say they can't get by without it and sometimes looking around it seems to be the case. But then maybe more destructive lifestyles around with other things - booze, cigs, gambling addictions, narcissism, there must be a hundred others?

andyslc

nefarius but how much would it cost to make legally? In proper labs to consistent quality, packaged and licensed?

What would a cheaper alternative be that might dissuade people from more damaging methamphetamine in the same way mephedrone damaged coke sales? Certainly something needs to change. Good article here for anyone vaguely interested:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/undercover-cop-heroin-addict-drugs-decriminalised-why-neil-woods-brighton-derbyshire-a7730011.html

nefarius

andyslc So would 2% beer 👍