Should the term unlimited be used regarding texts?

revjonty

I make this post following seeing this discussion
https://community.giffgaff.com/d/33138652-giffgaff-are-rogues

Where a member is annoyed at having their services suspended due to sending 100 text messages in a day.

Now some have said that this is too many, and breaks the terms of service, but if 100 a day is too many, how can the allowance in goodybags be called unlimited?

Now I understand blocking automated systems, but some people, especially the demographic which giffgaff targets, think nothing of spending all day texting their friends, and if they have bought an unlimited text bundle then isn’t it reasonable for them to expect the word unlimited to mean without limits? I know that’s what I think it means.

mrjeeves

revjonty

It’s not usually the amount of texts that’s the issue, but the timing of those texts.

These limits apply to almost all providers, even including the government (albeit, those are for messages to just 1 number).

The reasoning is that stuff like newsletters or service updates are usually sent via group text, so a large amount of messages being sent within a short amount of time is often an indicator or such behaviour.

Members who have had this happen to them can get their services reactivated by contacting an agent.

Judging by the amount of people I see with this issue compared to others (like activating a new SIM instead of doing a swap) I’d say this isn’t a major issue yet.

shabazmoqsud

revjonty i really dont understand giffgaff policies sometimes this is really stupid move why have something a feature when its used there gonna ban or suspend members from using. that why i hate giffgaff having unlimited anything whether texts or minutes and also why the always on goodybag needs a rethink when members get banned from purchasing it.

farnis

revjonty

giffgaff used to do an unlimited data goodybag but if you reached a certain amount of data you were warned you were using too much unlimited data and would be barred from buying that goodybag again. The only other crazy thing was no one knew what the unlimited amount of data that you exceeded got you barred. Confused?

i_am_sy

revjonty

Texts are Unlimited, and giffgaff doesn’t care at all how many you send.

They do have a duty like all networks though to ensure their service isn’t being abused by scammers ect sending mass texts to large groups of people, so have to put systems in place that prevent that. There are no hard limits for texts in a month, hence it is truly unlimited texts however the systems that detect abuse do sometimes have false positives and block some one unnecessary.

Most members I’ve seen come to the community because their texts are blocked have sent a large amount of identical texts to a large group of people. e.g. legitimate things like wedding invites, or scams like pyramid schemes.

So overall I don’t really think this is an issue at all, and the agents can easily deal with the odd case where it has been a false positive.

kath72

revjonty

I would hazard a guess that this will be an increasing problem now the £6 bag has ‘unlimited’ texts

I completely understand barring hundreds of texts simultaneously but I didn’t know there was a 100 tex A day limit

that needs made clearer … I don’t send that many but some days I get near that with other messenger services, especially since lock down

sloz

revjonty
Yes its a pertinent question and argument,
If you text in the usual manner in a bsvk and forth text conversation, there should be no or virtually no possibility of getting services barred

I believe giffgaff have undisclosed hourly rates over which the account is flagged
.
.
Although a member of staff was none committal when I raised this last year,
I did get the impression that giffgaff have several times, slackened or tightened the sms abuse flag

Incidentally I don’t think the services of the op from the link have had there services barred, going by their posts

And over the last 6 months I’ve seen very few reporting a services bar

richybhoy36

revjonty Hi there i totally agree unlimited should mean unlimited ! I.e. no limits !

bigjack57

revjonty Hello there,
Yes, I agree, if any operator advertises “unlimited texts”, then that , by definition, should mean that an infinite number of texts can be sent without any problems. If texts are limited in this way , there should be an asterisk beside the word “unlimited” to explain any restrictions on this.

davidvarley

revjonty
Should be a bit better limit to say 200 texts a day not 100 .

traelkom

revjonty Good afternoon. The reason behind it is mentioned above. The service is meant to be for private users and if you send it to lots of people with the same content is classified as scam. I have to say that personally i do not use text messages much and probably i would get upset if giffgaff blocked me, but within a reasonable usage everyone should be able to use it when needed.

pauljohn7

revjonty

I'v been with giffgaff for almost 10 years and I still can't believe that this issue still exists.

Its a fact that no-one is able to give a true figure on this.

Of couse giffgaff needs to prevent rouge users from abusing the network.

But far too many people get caught up by this. Its usually by making a simple mistake like 'texting my contacts my new number' - That one gives a very bad first impression for somone new to the network.

thunderdragon

revjonty Wait a minute…I thought my plan came with Always On texts? 😛

I’ve never tripped the bulk filter myself even though my phone supports sending the same text to multiple numbers (The SMS interface allows about 100 recipients I think) but there are two reasons I can think of for this:

My handset sends each text as an individual transmission…So if I send a two-part text to numbers A, B and C, the transmission goes A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2, rather than using the “Group text” framework. 🙂
I also try to keep multi-recipent SMS messages down to reasonable levels to avoid asking too much of the network. In the main this means no more than 10 texts at any one time (So 10x single-parters OR 5x two-parters OR 3x three-parters etc) and if I need to send more (Xmas or NYE) I usually group transmissions into batches and send each batch a few minutes apart. 👍️

Overall, I don’t think I’ve ever gone too far in how I use my Always On services, and I’m pretty sure giffgaff would let me know if I was starting to use More than my fair share! 😇
+++ 🚄 ThunderDragon 🤘 +++

revjonty

mrjeeves Judging by the amount of people I see with this issue compared to others (like activating a new SIM instead of doing a swap) I’d say this isn’t a major issue yet.

But it’s not relevant really how many people get caught out, it’s more a case of being honest with the advertising.

Don’t say that a service is unlimited if it isn’t.

peterhall0012

He may have sent them at one go he even said a temporary bar

persco

I don’t think the system will flag 100s of texts to a particular contact if it’s not at the same time and it’s a conversation. It’s bulk texts that triggers the system.

I would still say it is rightly unlimited using it normally. Now terms and conditions apply and kicks in when there is a suspected illegitimate use. Not sure what else they can call it though.

The feature to block bulk texts is good to stop scammers using the sim for that purpose amongst other legitimate reasons. It’s just unfortunate that sometimes legitimate use are also blocked which agents can investigate and resolve on a case by case basis.

i_am_sy

kath72 but I didn’t know there was a 100 tex A day limit

There isn’t.

We would have 100’s of complaints a day if there was.

woodyuk

kath72 as mentioned by i_am_sy above,there is no fixed limit,it’s all about how you send the texts.

Some days my wife’s phone is just about melting in her hands because she’s involved in ongoing text conversations with her two sisters and there will be plenty of days when she sends over 100 in a day but those are all individual texts mostly just to one person and sometimes to both of them so it’s not a problem.

If she were to send a text to 100 people at the same time though,the SMS abuse system would kick in and suspend her account until giffgaff looked into it.

I don’t know what the maximum amount of people you can text at one time is and still stay within the rules and would guess that giffgaff would never tell us so that spammers and scammers don’t skirt round the abuse policy.

munglespoon

If there is a Fair Usage Policy it needs to be much more clear than just a vague response of ‘normal usage will not be flagged’.

stuntdouble

maybe in brackets after unlimited it should say fair use policies apply or something like that, Lots of people have moved on from texts though as they are so old fashioned 😛.

bigjack57

stuntdouble Hi there,
Yes texts are a bit old-hat for many people now, with WhatsApp, and the like, but unlimited should mean just that , unless attention drawn to certain T’s &C’s

harrrrrry

stuntdouble it should say fair use policies apply or something like that

What it needs is a pointer to a page that clearly explains what is and isn’t allowed. And it shouldn’t use blanket terms like “automation” to define the restrictions.

The average user sending a text with plural recipients is very likely to assume that the phone will send a single copy of the text to a server somewhere. They will therefore assume giffgaff will consider it as a single outgoing text.

Even if they understand that it doesn’t work that way, because the phone will actually send individual texts to every person on the distribution, the chances are that they will not realise that what the phone is doing constitutes automation.

“But it wasn’t an automated message. I typed out the original message in full myself” I can almost hear them saying. We need to make it clear that distribution lists aren’t allowed – and it wouldn’t be a bad idea to suggest they ought to consider using email instead, or a third party texting service

munglespoon

harrrrrry and it wouldn’t be a bad idea to suggest they ought to consider using email instead, or a third party texting service

If a person buys a service from a mobile phone company then what place has the company got to say that they should use email instead of a text message? It is easy to tell other people what they should do and what services they should use. What is more important is to understand who they are and how they live their life and select services. Telling them to use email instead can be as well received as telling someone not to make a long telephone call and instead write a letter to post instead.

davek89

There isn’t a hard limit on the number of texts, so they are unlimited.
However, giffgaff are required by OFCOM to monitor patterns of usage and to take action to prevent scammers from spamming people. It’s also clear in the terms and conditions, that giffgaff is for personal customers only and not for business use.
Therefore giffgaff monitor how many texts are being sent, who to and when, and if their system flags up the usage pattern as being suspect, they place a temporary block on the account. Every network does exactly the same thing, although they might have different algorithms which flag suspicious activity differently.

mrjeeves

davidvarley

There is no hard limit. That’s total misinformation.