Suspensions for text message abuse - what you need to know

dcameron194

Hi all,

I’m Dave, and I work on the Fraud Prevention team here at giffgaff.

Some of you may remember that in 2018, we had to suspend a few members from our service who had been using an app that was designed to use up part of their text allowance, and would then pay the member for doing so with cash, vouchers or other rewards. Unfortunately, what wasn’t made clear to the member by the app maker was that this would put them in breach of our terms and conditions, as the text messages the app sent were both automated and excessive.

This week, in addition to our regular fraud prevention work, we’ve had to enact more suspensions due to people using another, similar app. We’d like to remind anyone that if something like this sounds too good to be true, it probably is, and people won’t offer you money for nothing. In this case, the operator of this app is using it to control your device, making money from the texts that your device is sending, and passing on a fraction of it to you, while you take all the risk; in this case, suspension from giffgaff services.

This kind of activity costs the network significant amounts of money. We have to put a stop to it, otherwise we have to cover the costs, which ultimately would end up driving the price of mobile services up for everyone.

If you see an advert for a service that says that they’ll pay you for your unused allowances, bear in mind that it’s likely going to be in breach of our Terms and could lead to one of these suspensions. If you find that you have unused allowances at the end of the month, the best approach is to save money by buying a smaller goodybag that still covers your needs - because we don’t lock you in, you’re free to change to a lower plan when you need it, or one with more data if you’re expecting to use more. To make sure you’re getting the right goodybag for you, have a look at your usage statement, and see which goodybag we recommend based on your usage. If you’d rather get it by email, you just need to opt-in to marketing messages in My giffgaff.

Thanks,
Dave

mrsgrowler

dcameron194

Sorry if this is a silly question but as all bags now come with unlimited texts is the final paragraph relevant?

Or does the app in question also make use of the bags data allowance?

Sorry

jesi23

mrsgrowler Sorry if this is a silly question but as all bags now come with unlimited texts is the final paragraph relevant?
Yes, because what Dave said is:
dcameron194 If you see an advert for a service that says that they’ll pay you for your unused allowances

I think it is relevant as although THIS particular app is offering to pay you for unused SMS allowances, another service could offer you payment for ANY unused allowances, so this statement covers all options. Although there is no difference between unlimited minutes and texts allowances (all unlimited at present) for any Goodybag, you should be choosing your Goodybag depending on your needs rather than seeking to benefit from any unused allowances. _{_🤡}

pdean230470

dcameron194

Hi Dave,

Unfortunately I’m one of the barred accounts for using this app.

The problem is I just thought I was using a few of my unused texts, which are unlimited. I had no idea I was breaching giffgaff rules and to be fair, I don’t regularly visit the community pages here unless there’s a problem, but suddenly and without warning yesterday my account was barred at around 6pm, this completely unexpectedly and like others I was left fumbling about trying to fathom what had happened?

I do apologise unreservedly as I now see what has happened, but consequently today, I am still waiting after 16 hours without any service and for one of your agents to hopefully restore my service, meanwhile unable to make or receive business calls for my job.

Like others I don’t keep a set of giffgaffs terms on my bedside table so hopefully you will forgive this unintentional oversight, but please do try and more widely circulate through members email notices about bans blocks and bars before taking action as many people have very unwittingly and genuinely made a mistake by using this app and are now left floundering without service.

jaymailsays

dcameron194
I quite understand the reasons why banning these apps makes commercial sense as the app owners are in effect re-selling giffgaff services, which is completely against giffgaff’s T&Cs.

What I find harsh is when a new member, joining giffgaff for legitimate reasons, then finds all their services barred, without transparent communication on why their services have been or will be suspended for sending multiple texts, for example telling contacts, that they have changed their mobile number.

This issue is especially vital during Covid-19 when track and trace is essential to many member’s health. So much so, although I hardly use sms, preferring WhatsApp I feel the withdrawal of service, lacks transparency by giffgaff and that the member suspension issue should be audited by Ofcom to ensure giffgaff T&Cs are fair.

mrsgrowler

Thank you to those who replied to my previous post as I realise now that what I should have queried was not the whole last paragraph but just this bit

dcameron194 If you find that you have unused allowances at the end of the month, the best approach is to save money by buying a smaller goodybag that still covers your needs - because we don’t lock you in, you’re free to change to a lower plan when you need it, or one with more data if you’re expecting to use more. To make sure you’re getting the right goodybag for you,

which refers specifically to unused allowances and the possibility of changing bag size to a smaller one thus reducing one’s unused allowance.
But now that all bags have unlimited calls and texts the only “unused allowance” that can be affected by changing bag size is data hence why I asked if this app also affected data.

dennisbowen

dcameron194 Thanks for the update

ma2013

dcameron194
Thanks for the post. Yes, it’s makes sense… People don’t get money for nothing, and for these text service apps, they are breaching giffgaff Terms and Conditions. Glad you posted this very informative thread. 😊📱😁

sloz

Hi, dcameron194
Several have reported receiving a permanent bar?
Surely this is unjust and unfair just for making one mistake and using an app in all innocence?

dario1985

dcameron194 Thank you for this and I am one who used this app unknowingly that it was not allowed. I should have done more research really. However I must say after being with giffgaff for years I’m dissappointed in that no warning was sent to give me and others the chance to remove the app. I have just been told by an agent that my account will remain permently banned as well. Im dissapponted that giffgaff won’t allow us to continue our service now we know it detail why this app is not allowed. Its my fault I know I should have looked more into it but I’m very surprised in the fact no wanring was issued and we are basically not welcome back after years of support.

trace27216

dcameron194 hi Dave, how can I get my account unsuspended please as it was my friend who told me to download an app and I wasn’t aware it was a breach of the terms and conditions, and I’m also disabled so very vulnerable

ray2

dcameron194 I find this a bit harsh without at least a txt warning the member to stop using the service that is the cause of the problem,many members will have been caught out in this without knowing why unless they come to the forums and post on help and support or inundate the “ask an agent forms”

Surely a warning explaining that you see the member has signed up to a service which is in breach of giffgaff guidlines and unless the service is terminated the member will have services suspended,then give the member a timeline to end the service.

I am sure many members once notified it breaches giffgaff guidlines will stop the service asap and that would then stop a suspension.

tangai

dcameron194 Thank you for all updates.

ryanh36116

dcameron194
Fair enough makes sense.

So when will our services be put back on?? I have uninstalled the app and won’t bother with it again. I need my services put back on! I have been without since yesterday. Nearly 24hrs with no services?? Ime afraid to say but if they are not put back on soon i will be putting this giffgaff sim in the bin and switching to another network provider. My 12yr old son can’t even contact me if there is a problem at school!!! Not really fair to punish us for a app that said it would pay us for our allowances i need my services restored?? I think giffgaff could of dealt with this situation better rather than just barring everyone thats using the app you could of text us or emailed to tell us we were breaching the ts&cs you didn’t even give us a chance you just barred everyone not good!

danwillen

dcameron194

I know from posts in help and support About smishing messages (fishing scam messages) that alot of the ones with a screen shot the message has come from a standard mobile number is it possible that this app was also sending out smishing messages? If this is that case then I can see why permit bans are been issued as the members account has been complicit in committing a criminal act (fraud)

darrenperfett

dcameron194 thanks for the heads up, never come across this before, you learn something new each day as the saying goes.

formulaone

dcameron194

Thanks for the heads up!

It’s terrible to see many giffgaff members which are affected by this and are now having to leave as a result of downloading this app (that they were clearly unaware of the implications it had.) And have apologised for downloading such an app.

Surely those members should have their service reinstated. It’s clearly unfair to punish them, for something they were unaware of what the App was actually doing (sending out Spam text messages and basically generating money from it). Especially if they’ve apologised, when raising it with an agent.

In regards to this particular App - I am surprised that it has not been banned from the (Samsung Galaxy Store) …. Is their nothing you can do to report it to Samsung? In the hope to have it taken down.

The Apps Trustpilot Account has negative reviews (including giffgaff and other providers) regarding customers ‘mobile services’ being suspended due to this App.

Could you not somehow (if possible) put a bar in place to stop members from downloading this App? Instead of suspending giffgaff members mobile services.

pete2009

dcameron194
Thanks for the information. Hope people don’t get caught up with it.

david19743

dcameron194 Seems really straightforward to me, as you state: something that is too good to be true…..I guess at the end of the day giffgaff have a responsibility for protecting the wider community and therefore the ban comes into force. Straightforward. 🤝

richybhoy36

dcameron194 Thanks for the info ! Very interesting ! :-)

oliverspooner

dcameron194 Away with you parasite fraudsters! And keep our giffgaff CLEAN

frenchielove

dcameron194 thank you for the clarification

richybhoy36

dcameron194 Hi there good I’m glad your the ball :-) all the best !,

chand311

dcameron194 in addition to our regular fraud prevention work, we’ve had to enact more suspensions due to people using another, similar app. We’d like to remind anyone that if something like this sounds too good to be true, it probably is, and people won’t offer you money for nothing. In this case, the operator of this app is using it to control your device, making money from the texts that your device is sending, and passing on a fraction of it to you, while you take all the risk; in this case, suspension from giffgaff services.

This kind of activity costs the network significant amounts of money. We have to put a stop to it, otherwise we have to cover the costs, which ultimately would end up driving the price of mobile services up for everyone.
@ajk49

kevincunno

Hi there dcameron194 thanks for letting our great members on this specific situation on the terms and conditions post 👍

byre

dcameron194 nice work there ! Making sure that fair usage is maintained.👍

leshin

dcameron194 very interesting

fir3mansam

dcameron194 I’ve just speed read this so may have missed it.

Was the offending app named?

Was in android or IOS?

tibbsyboo

dcameron194 Thanks for the heads up, but to me it’s common sense, it’s no different to using a company van outside of work, unless you ask and your company boss and they give you permission to do so, which most work places do not allow.

persco

This makes sense now. Thanks for keeping an eye out for members. This is why it’s so hard to balance unlimited sms usage as per the Goodybags terms and bulk texting triggering a ban legitimately or illegitimately.

Thanks for the update and info.

z201205

@dcameron194

mrsgrowler Sorry if this is a silly question but as all bags now come with unlimited texts is the final paragraph relevant?

That thought crossed my mind too.

There have been reports about people being banned by sending ordinary text messages to a group of friends (iirc a small number of 4). That surely is not abuse and giffgaff should not ban a member for doing that.

There have been threads about giffgaff being used for business. One of the points made was that sending texts to the whole company would lead to the company being suspended: hardly business friendly.

dtuxcomp

mrsgrowler It’s unlimited texts for personal use, it still costs the network to send each one so if people are using an app that autosends texts that’s a cost for giffgaff, and ultimately us as members.

mrjeeves

Here’s some info I’ve compiled for people to use:

Why is this against the T’s and C’s? How does it work?

It texts numbers allocated to networks other than the one you’re using, causing giffgaff to be charged an SMS termination fee.

As the message is basically garbage data, the termination fee is for nothing, the SMS gets thrown away by the other network or the receiver’s device/server.

It’s a question of how Mofono make money… The receiving networks are the ones who are getting the money, so how does that transfer over to Mofono? At about 2 Euro cents per SMS (in July 2018), Mofono give you 0.45p/SMS. All the rest is shared between the receiving network and Mofono it seems.

@i_am_sy’s thought is that Mofono may have bought a defunct MVNO or two. That means they’d take over the contract with the MNO and convince them to agree to a deal where they get part of the termination charge revenue. The MNO can’t back out, else they’d be breaking the contract, meaning they are stuck Mofono abusing their services.

If the above is right, Mofono end up with 100k numbers (07xxx 000000 - 07xxx 999999), a share of the SMS termination fees, and access to the main network’s systems. Remember it’s all assumptions and guesswork at the moment.

In a nutshell…

You will be barred if you use it
It spams texts every 5 mins to other networks
giffgaff get charged about 2 euro cents for each of these messages (which is a lot on the already thin margins)
We’ll all end up with price rises if it was allowed

Myself and @i_am_sy worked this out at about 1 am last night. 😛

Feel free to use all this info in your answers - just make sure to change Myself at the end to a mention of @mrjeeves

rickvigorous

pdean230470 no idea I was breaching giffgaff rules

That is your mistake. Are you planning to payback the money you made on the app? There is no such thing as free money and bassically the money mofono and you made came from giffgaff and its users.
Unfortunatly a lot of people get fooled by these scams 🙁

dtuxcomp

I’ve missed most of the discussion about this subject so forgive any ignorance, but I’d assume there would be a warning message first, like there is for people who go way over the limit on the always-on bag ?

mrjeeves

dtuxcomp

The warning applies to everything, and other networks have similar clauses in their T’s & C’s.

jaymailsays

dtuxcomp I’d assume there would be a warning message first, like there is for people who go way over the limit on the always-on bag ?

From the affected members I have seen posting in and around Help, they are automatically suspended without prior warning.

Often they think it is a network or sim failure and have no inkling they have broken a rule.

The number that continues working after suspension is 443 and/or the nhs number.

Clearly once barred no texts get through and if you only use your linked email inbox on your phone, with mobile data, your emails won’t work either.

Reinstatement by agents is discretionary and if the offence is repeated, barring is permanent.

mrsgrowler

dtuxcomp
The difference is that if you over use the Always On bag you are just breaching giffgaff’s own policies whereas the sending of SPAM is an illegal activity
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3120628.stm

So the answer to your question

dtuxcomp do people who are doing this receive any kind of message asking them to stop before they are banned ?

is no.

Because it is something that needs to be stopped immediatley it is done automatically by the system as soon as it detects suspicious activity.

That way only the “innocent” will contact giffgaff to ask why their service has stopped, then when told why will explain what they did - eg “I sent a text to all me mates” - apologise and say they won’t do it again .

Whereas I doubt a spammer would bother!

funkicus

dtuxcomp No, there isn’t. My service suddenly cut off without warning yestererday. I stupidly thought I was receiving the SMSes, not sending them. I’ve asked giffgaff to reconsider but I highly doubt they will

dario1985

dtuxcomp
You would think so but nope nothing! I hold my hands up to using this app without knowing it was not allowed. Having been with giffgaff for years and purchased two phones via them I am dissappointed in myself for not doing more research before using this app and in giffgaff for not giving a warning to me to inform me my actions was not allowed. Just been told my account is permently banned and I am welcome to transfer my number to another network. So thrown under the bus basically after years of hassel free service. Only used this app for just over a month. I really want to stay with giffgaff and learn from this but I guess they don’t want that. 🙁

dtuxcomp

mrjeeves Sorry, I didn’t mean a warning in the T&C’s I meant do people who are doing this receive any kind of message asking them to stop before they are banned ?

mrjeeves

dtuxcomp

No, it all happens afterwards. After you’re barred you’d get a text and email about it.

It’s assumed you’d know as you “read” the T’s & C’s.

The agents “unbar” you after, so it’s “ok”. 🤔

hayba12

dtuxcomp no u don’t!! I’ve been barred since 2PM yesterday and had no warning msg or email anything I just got barred

hayba12

mrjeeves I’ve had no email call or text still and I’ve been barred since 2PM yesterday I contacted a agent last night and I’ve still not been informed by giffgaff I’m barred 😔

jesi23

mrjeeves It’s assumed you’d know as you “read” the T’s & C’s.

Many moons ago, I proposed an idea to
Require Reading of T&C before Joining is Possible
(05-11-2014 14:44)
https://labs.giffgaff.com/idea/15292782/require-reading-of-t-amp-c-before-joining-is-possible

Quote from the description of the idea:
CLEARLY, NOT EVERYONE BUYING A PHONE has read the MEMBER T&Cs to which they agreed when joining.

The technology exists to make the link for agreeing the Terms & Conditions conditional on clicking a link for Terms & Conditions before you can continue.

I have entered competitions, where instead of a ‘CONTINUE’ button there is a T&C button which brings a box up containing the Terms & Conditions with the Agree button at the bottom of the Terms & Conditions.

The giffgaff ‘Terms & Conditions’ are not so extensive that they cannot be skimmed quickly, and then no one could complain they did not already know ‘Up Front’ about the policies.

SO REQUIRE THEM TO READ THEM before they join.

I read them through. But then I also read the Microsoft T&Cs before installing my productivity software for Word/Excel/PowerPoint, and before agreeing anything …

… which is probably why I have not installed WhatsApp, and don’t use Facebook or Twitter or various other social media!🙄

_{_🤡}

ajk49

mrjeeves
Can I just ask for clarity? 1.Once it becomes apparent that this 3rd party app or similar is being used, then that is an instant ban/suspension? It is a type of fraud? Wilful or not, unlike,

A giffgaffer member who
exceeds unlimited calls and texts which are still subject to a fair usage policy. They would get a warning?
If this is the case then I can understand the instant suspension without warning.

exmember-8789225

mrjeeves They don’t send anything to tell you your permanently banned, they just cut your service with no word, I only found out when I had to speak to an agent who then told me and the suspension is permanent

timwilliams25

Don’t know why anyone would risk opening up access to their phone to a third party app like mofone or similar. For a potential small payment, you are giving the app developer access to your phone’s call and text services. You don’t know what is being send and to who.

How do you fell if you are bombarded with nonsense text/spam messages? Well uses these apps, you are promoting it

jaymailsays

mrsgrowler hence why I asked if this app also affected data.

Theoretically if you install one of those rogue apps you are handing control of your device to a third party who could certainly manipulate your data but I can’t see how the app owners could financially profit from your data allowance unless they signed you up for services that impacted on any credit balance you might have.