Knowledge Base

Disappointing Payback

Started by: smithster225225
On: 10/11/2018 | 01:14
Replies: 47

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by: smithster225225
on: 10/11/2018 | 01:14 edited: 10/11/2018 | 01:15

Who else worked their socks off all month and got next to nothing back in payback points?


I for one am NOT happy!



Don't forget to AWARD BEST ANSWER Or give Kudos to members that helped!
Message 1 of 48

Accepted Solutions
by: freedmaniac
on: 10/11/2018 | 08:12


I understand your point perfectly.

While this month has been OK, there have been times when the result seemed very disappointing.

It would be so nice to understand exactly how it was all calculated.

Message 4 of 48
by: 4128334
on: 10/11/2018 | 07:32
Good Morning,
Far from being disappointed, I am very pleased with my Payback.
I appreciated what I receive no matter how small or large.
Thank You giffgaff.
Get a free giffgaff Sim
Message 2 of 48
by: essie112mm
on: 10/11/2018 | 07:49 edited: 10/11/2018 | 07:53

Doubtless you will receive plenty of replies from members informing you that their payback is "the icing on the cake" and you should be grateful for what you receive, or the other oft-quoted old chestnut is that other networks don't give out payback so in this respect giffgaff is wonderful.


Of course, that isn't the point. Whatever your thoughts on payback - and mine are that it is absurd and over-generous, and to drive up quality input should be scrapped altogether - it is perfectly justified to conclude that since we do have payback it has to be awarded fairly or not at all, and clearly that doesn't happen. It was conceived with the laudible aims of encouraging and rewarding members who post more thoughtfully and participate across all sections of the community. In my opinion it has utterly failed to achieve either aim, driven out good helpers from Help and Support, and instead encouraged yet more greed. And a quick look around shows that the majority of members spend their time on either one or two forums at the most.


Since payback was changed in 2015 just about no one understands the logic of how it works, including me. I'm sure you are familiar with the thread which launched the new 'improved' payback but for the sake of anyone unaware of it here is the link. There appear to be so many variables that it's no wonder members are either delighted or unamused like you with what they have received. And since calculation of payback was automated I think there's even less logic to the calculations.


My advice therefore is threefold: contact Alex (and ask him to do a manual calculation and perhaps explain your payback allocation compared to other months), adopt a "what will be, will be"  attitude to whatever you receive, or start posting replies such as "Wicked idea", "Thanks very much for letting us know" or "I agree" and see if it helps for next month's payback. Smiley Wink

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Message 3 of 48
by: freedmaniac
on: 10/11/2018 | 08:12


I understand your point perfectly.

While this month has been OK, there have been times when the result seemed very disappointing.

It would be so nice to understand exactly how it was all calculated.

Message 4 of 48
by: k89bpa
on: 10/11/2018 | 08:13
This is one of the reasons I advise people against factoring in "payback" here when they're choosing a provider. It's way too volatile for that.

Must better for people in need of some "payback" to go through a reputable "cash back" provider or to negotiate "payback" as part of a contract from a provider.

That way people know exactly what they have coming in and when and they can thus factor this into their calculations.

The way to use giffgaff is to assume that you'll get £0.00 "payback", and ask yourself if you can afford or want to pay the full package price on the website or not.

That way you will always know exactly where you stand and if you do receive "payback" then it truly is a nice little bonus.
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Message 5 of 48
by: extreme_one
on: 10/11/2018 | 09:02

@essie112mm wrote:

... to drive up quality input should be scrapped altogether ...

I've made a similar point, on numerous occasions in the past @essie112mm, but I've changed my mind completely.


I now believe most members simply wouldn't remain active here, if it weren't for payback.


The community just isn't rewarding enough in and of itself. 



Anyway, back to the OP, considering I was on forced hiatus for 10 days or so, I'm more than happy with my October payback.


Smiley Indifferent
Message 6 of 48
by: ujo55
on: 10/11/2018 | 09:06
Hi @smithster225225
I must confess that I use the forums for interest and relaxation, and certainly have gained a lot of knowledge from others as a result.
If I can pass on some of the knowledge to help others I'm happy to do so, and the payback really is not the motivator, the amounts being rather small as I certainly don't' work my socks off' as I just dabble. So I've certainly no complaints.
If I wanted to earn money there are much easier and more reliable ways!
However of course if payback is to be paid, it should be done in a fair and understandable way, perhaps that isn't altogether the case at present, but really it is not a source of income anyone should rely upon.
Message 7 of 48
by: ip633
on: 10/11/2018 | 09:59

@smithster225225 wrote:

Who else worked their socks off all month and got next to nothing back in payback points?


I for one am NOT happy!



I just think it’s sad that forum participation is often perceived as being work Smiley Indifferent


It’s more than five years since I received any payback, so I’ve no experience of payback 2.0, but I do remember the original system, and I believe it was fairer, and paid out more realistic amounts (as explained here).  Back then, the formula that was used to calculate payback was kept secret in order to discourage people from gaming the system. But a lot of people had worked it out (roughly at least), and it was felt that some of our more prolific helpers were probably curtailing their contributions once they were confident that they’d done enough to hit that top band of £30. 


The current system is supposed to be more transparent, so that people get a clearer understanding of what kind of posting behaviours are going to help them to maximise their rewards, and it was even felt that this approach would mean that people would be less inclined to try to game the system. So it’s ironic that there’s still so much confusion around it.


Experience tells us that the current system hasn’t really worked as it was intended, it unfairly raises expectations that there is easy money to be earned, and that’s part of the problem. 

Message 8 of 48
by: pokapoka93
on: 10/11/2018 | 10:23
Well, I never understand the calculation. Sometimes I do feel a bit downhearted previously where I only managed to get around 300 points in a month (roughly average). However, to be honest I think my replies has not been brilliant enough I suppose. On the bright side I prefer to just chat things off here rather than being on facebook nowadays as it is anonymous and sometimes the conversation is quite engaging.

I am really sorry to hear your reason for unhappiness but there is nothing that we can do. Even up until now I don't understand fully what will all these kudos equivalent to in terms of point.

Cheers mate, Do enjoy your weekend and vent of the frustration @smithster225225
Message 9 of 48
by: essie112mm
on: 10/11/2018 | 11:35

In the short term abandoning payback would very likely result in a big drop in numbers visiting the community, but personally I think that's short-termist. We need to look at the bigger picture: attracting members who post and help on the community for the right reasons is the Holy Grail. To do this community content has to be vastly better than now, so surely working on ways to achieve that is far better than dangling a golden carrot (or should it be carat?? Smiley Very Happy). Bribes never work, and essentially payback is just that: a bribe to get people to visit/post. 


Like ip633, I am disappointed that so many people see themselves as "working" for payback. On Help and Support I have also often read posts that say, "We are only volunteers", and raised an eyebrow about that too. In the vast majority of cases neither of these is true. Perhaps it would be a more accurate reflection of things to replace the word "earned" payback points with "accrued".


When the maximum amount of payback was £30 there were many fewer members than in 2018 and yet numbers visiting the community were much higher. The forums were busier and more vibrant. We can have those days back again, but not while payback is the principal driver for members visiting the community or while the perception continues that it both over-rewards and penalises.  And as an unintended consequence it would probably deal with the vexed issue of all those naughty under sixteens apparently spending too much time on the community and not enough hours on their studies. Where I live most teenagers seem to get about £20-30 pocket money a week these days so £30 a month is only the equivalent of a cubic zirconia carrot . 

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Message 10 of 48