Giffgaff uses loophole to con customers

[#1]

foonle wrote:

@as7861
"Would it make it easier for people to have this included? Yes. "
Thank you for your response and for understanding my point. It's difficult to get a point across on here because there are so many people who just go on the defensive.
It seems we are in agreement, it would be much easier for people to have this included. Of course, giffgaff aren't legally obliged to include the UK in the EU free zone, so they don't, but it would be nice if they did wouldn't it? Personally I'd say it is the only fair and moral thing to do. The only reason not to do so is to make more money from customers.

Hi @foonle & all,

I have a different opinion to many - not a popular one I'm sure, and I don't expect to convert anyone, so try not to be offended if you disagree, but in giffgaff's defence...

The EU looked at a market, decide something was wrong, and fixed it with a law that everyone who trades in that market must follow.  Lots of people are very happy, all the 'experts' have patted themselves on the back and gone looking for something else that needs fixing.

All well and good - except.. what they have done in this case is fix the prices.  They warned everyone in advance that this was what they were going to do - and naturally, every mobile operator put up the prices or changed terms in other areas to compensate.  Now, people who don't roam abroad are paying for those that do.

But, that is not the only issue - If a supplier does not wish to focus on a particular section of the market they are in, (keeping their efforts directed to things they are better at) they usually have a tool that will allow them to keep numbers down - Price! They can simply be less competitive in that area, and sure enough, their customer base will end up consisting largely of people who do not need that service/product - the regulations remove that tool.

The Roaming regulations and the fixed prices will also have made it difficult for new providers to enter the market - whatever 'USP' they might want to bring, they will first have to make a profit looking just like every other provider - and even one less operator in the market is one less option for us when deciding on tariffs - we are all poorer.

With that in mind, and looking at how giffgaff evolved, I wonder, if the regulations were in place then, would they have even got off the ground?

However, we are where we are - its great that everyone who needs it, has cheap roaming - its not great that the rest of us are paying for that - were the high prices a rip off? I didn't think so then, and I still don't.

I also don't have a problem with anyone following the letter of the law to maximise profit - Unless you are dealing with a charity (and sometimes even then) goods and services are provided for a profit - if a company makes less profit, their customers and investors all worry and start looking for alternatives.

If the law is a bad one, complain to those that made it - or they will just keep making bad ones.

[#2]

@phillsibson

Extremely well put !!

I agree with what you have said.

I think that point that some are struggling with is a moral one rather than a legal one. It seems very easy to blur the lines between these two concepts.

If people totally accept the "run by you" concept, then they are likely to look for the moral stance and I fear that they will be disappointed on this matter.

If, on the other hand, you take the stance that Giffgaff is a business, answerable to the shareholders of Telefoncia, then it may be easier to see how it all works.

In summary, I am not necessarily saying that the pricing policy is good, simply that it represents everyday business practise.

[#3]

@foonle I wouldn’t call it giffgaff exploiting loophole as all other UK operators do the same. In fact giffgaff has some of the best rates to call EU numbers from UK.

On the other hand I agree that in the rest EU it is increasingly more and more common not to differentiate between EU and domestic numbers and EU calls are usually included in allowances.

I do have family there and travel there and back a lot and therefore have 2 numbers (one UK and one EU) in dual SIM phone and courtesy of EU now I have free roaming so can choose from best tariffs and options for calls. Maybe an idea for someone who is calling EU or is getting calls from EU a lot.

We shall see how the impending Brexit changes this, but I don’t think that any operator will want to be the first one to reintroduce roaming fees... and most operators are part of multinational group so will benefit from synergies across the EU so hopefully that won’t be necessary.