Payback should be part of the discussion (though probably mentioned earlier in the thread). Some may not be interested in Payback while others get a good income from it, or at least enough to cover their GiffGaff outgoings. Either way, it must amount to a major cost in the GG business model. So I think there is little point in hoping for PAYG rates to be reduced to the same level as the new O2 Classic rates, as such a move would probably be at the expense of Payback. If Payback disappeared, would GG itself survive? Although the GG forums are very interesting to participate in, would O2 see any point (or profit) in allowing it to continue as a standalone network?