Knowledge Base

PayBack...And PayPal. Have they come up with a solution yet?

Started by: thunderdragon
On: 27/01/2019 | 21:59
Replies: 9

by: thunderdragon
on: 27/01/2019 | 21:59
Hi again everyone! Smiley Happy
A while back, we were discussing the matter of cash PayBack only being available via PayPal, which isn't fairly accessible to everybody. A lot of us - Myself included - Suggested that BACS (Direct bank transfers) should be offered alongside or in lieu, and I think others also suggested that coupons (Green Shield Stamps and Love2Shop vouchers, for example. MoF/DEFRA Ration Books would be darned useful from April onwards!) could also be offered as a PayBack option.

Following some negative experiences over the past couple of months - Which have included having to execute chargeback through my card provider for goods not received, but in respect of which eBay thought otherwise (And which caused me considerable Depression in the process) - I'm through with eBay and it's companies, including PayPal, Gumtree and other arms originally founded by or as parts of eBay but now split off as separate operations.
Understandably I'm no longer willing to trust PayPal with any money in my name...Especially as they have persistently denied/declined instructions which I have given them under force of the GDPR, despite such refusals being statutarily unlawful! Smiley Surprised Smiley Sad

Offering cash but only via PayPal unfairly forces people into using a company many cannot trust, contributes toward an uncompetitive (And possibly illegal) one-horse market for payment service providers, and just screams "Antitrust" at me over and over again! Smiley Surprised

Does anybody know if GiffGaff ever looked into alternative options for NoPayPal customers? Smiley Happy
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Message 1 of 10
by: willscarlett
on: 27/01/2019 | 22:14
Hi, I kind of get the "anti trust" argument, sort of. But really there is no reason why people can't use paypal, and can then transfer it to their own account.
It saves a vast amount of admin compared to setting up sort codes and account numbers for bank payments.
All retailers can choose not to accept certain forms of payments, like Amex for example (though aren't allowed to charge extra for one over the other), so I wouldn't have thought there was any legal issues to only offer one method of paying people out.
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Message 2 of 10
by: persco
on: 27/01/2019 | 22:19

I don’t think there is much alternatives out there with commission up the roof for a one off payout every 6months and no hard long term interest on the money being held as banks would. The amount of payments to be processed over a short period of time is a lot ‘relatively’ and most take it out within a short period of time anyway which I would assume is of little to no interest to the banks to charge same rate as PayPal for processing. Plus giffgaff would have looked at alternatives if there was but as time changes, maybe alternatives would prop up that giffgaff can take advantage off aside direct bank deposits or banks processing the payments. 


Any thoughts on alternatives yourself? 

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Message 3 of 10
by: inspiron42
on: 28/01/2019 | 08:11
PayPal must add to costs as they act as a middle man between the banks and the people being paid. I can't see the point of them, and world also prefer direct payment to my bank
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Message 4 of 10
by: boblog
on: 28/01/2019 | 08:43
Paypal is great imo, it enables you to buy stuff with virtually one click, you don't need to enter your delivery address or anything, simply enter your email and password and paypal provides the rest. I don't think it adds to costs either as they charge retailers the same as credit cards etc. Presumably they negotiate a lower rate from the credit card companies, and the difference between them is their profit. You can send money to people too (for free) with just their email address, it's a godsend for people in developing parts of the world too. Before banks there was only the banks and Western Union type companies (who charged large fees)
It's a shame other places don't take paypal eg Amazon and it isn't as easy to use in shops etc
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Message 5 of 10
by: harrybeau
on: 28/01/2019 | 10:52

I have no trouble trusting paypal. Used for years with no problem. Trust my bank? No.

Message 6 of 10
by: kate1028
on: 28/01/2019 | 14:28

Like some others, I was reluctant to open a Paypal account, and disappointed that it seemed to be the only method for Payback cash on Giffgaff.    However, having opened an account, because there was no alternative, I have been pleasantly surprised at how easy it was and how well it's worked - for me at least.   I've been using it for nearly 2 years, with no problems at all, for Payback and payments, including topping up my husband's account, and I now occasionally use it for other payments too - but I've never used E Bay or any similar companies.   I don't have any cards linked to it - only my bank account, and I'm happy to keep it that way.   Although I'm now a Paypal 'fan', I can understand that some people might prefer a direct credit method of payment, particularly after a bad experience.  


Message 7 of 10
by: thunderdragon
on: 06/02/2019 | 15:31
Hi again everyone! Smiley Happy
I sort of get the arguments for using PayPal as it is a very convenient service in many respects (Doesn't the PayPal app offer contactless payment on supported phones, for example?) but my issue with being obliged to use PayPal to receive cash PayBack is that It doesn't give me a fair choice of available payment providers or options for receiving a payment. It's the fact that PayPal is the only option offered for this that I have issue with, as even if BACS can't be considered other e-payment providers - Google Pay, Apple Pay, Barclays bPay/PingIt - Could readily be offered as alternatives alongside PayPal. Each has its pros and cons of course, but having a range of choices would at least allow people to choose whichever option is most secure and agreeable per their own individual perspective. Smiley Happy

I admit I havn't a clue what the costs are for businesses sending payments to customers in the way PayBack calls for (Can anyone with experience of business banking advise?) but if it was proportionally cost efficient - Say; 20p flat fee + 0.25% of transfer (Or 28p for a GBP 30,- PayBack award) - I'd probably be happy to have the transfer fee paid from my PayBack-via-BACS to benefit from the better security and convenience of BACS as well as not being obliged to use PayPal! Smiley Happy

I must admit this question does also suggest there may be a built-in problem with the way e-payments work in this country, given in other countries (Particularly German-speaking ones) BACS is an everyday way for paying and refunding customers no matter how large/small the amount, with bank charges either paid for by the recipient of funds or included as a part of their standard account maintenance fees.
Consider: Why should PayPal be allowed to maintain a "stranglehold"^ over the UK e-payments market when the market in this case is a nation and a people whose only "Ownership" (In any legal respect) belongs to the Crown? Smiley Surprised Smiley Happy
(^ - I double-quote it as this is the word I'd use for how I'm viewing the situation, but I know other views will differ widely from this. Smiley Happy )

I'm not disputing the Usefulness or Convenience of PayPal (Or any named service) here at all, but I'm certainly disputing the legality of the Cornered Market that PayPal benefits from through things like GiffGaff offering only PayPal as a means to receive payment in cash.
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Message 8 of 10
by: jaymailsays
on: 07/02/2019 | 14:46 edited: 07/02/2019 | 15:02

The advantage PayPal has over other payment methods, for giffgaff, as I see it, comes down to verification of and the sharing of our limited profile information, unlike the main banks. The giffgaff KB refers to this change in 2016/17.


giffgaff presumably need this audit trail verification to fully comply with accounting regulations including money laundering.


We have now introduced a new verification method that requires you to verify your PayPal account.

To verify your PayPal account just go to your Payback page and click on 'choose cash' you will then be re-directed to the PayPal site were you must login and verify your account. You must click on 'Agree' to proceed.

To choose your Payback method just follow this link "


PayPal reportedly had 267 million* active users in the last quarter of 2018 up from 80m+ in 2010 That indicates a potentially higher level of trust than a few financial institutions I can think of.


Edit: Source link*



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Message 9 of 10
by: timwilliams25
on: 12/02/2019 | 07:38

Paypal is good for us.  We can all have it paid into the same account as PayPal is linked to email address, not specific person's name, address etc etc.


I am sure it is easier for giffgaff to track payments too, as it is all within the same payment system.

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Message 10 of 10