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Terms and Conditions giffgaff dereliction

Started by: frpc
On: 17/06/2018 | 17:36
Replies: 15
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by: frpc
on: 17/06/2018 | 17:36 edited: 17/06/2018 | 18:39

Hi @timo_t I know you are leaving but this in Terms & Conditiions needs a fix to make it lawful. https://giffgaff.com/terms

 

9.5. Any returns or refunds in respect of devices purchased from us are subject to our returns policy You may return a device to us once for a full refund within 14 calendar days from the date of delivery <snip>

 

Yet the Government website says this is unlawful?  In fact, members have up to 28 (clear) days to reject and return goods, for any reason and to return unwanted goods, not the limited 14 days wrongly suggested in T&C

 https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds which says:-

 

"You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you."

 

What it means in practice is that if you get delivery on the 1st of the month, the clock starts ticking from the next day the 2nd, allowing a member to inform giffgaff that they wish to return the goods on any day upto and including the 15th day of the month. From the date of informing you of the wish, they have 14 further days to return the goods, which for example in June would be the 29th. A full 28 days following the receipt of the goods and 14 days after the latest they can tell you of their decision to return the device.

 

The current T&C gives the wrong impression of just 14 days in total, when consumer law clearly states it can be up to 28 days.

 

Hope you can implement the T&C needed changes prior to your departure?

Edit

N.B. The returns policy link in the 2nd paragraph above (taken from T&C 9.5) wrongly directs the member to an Article describing what to do in the case of a faulty device. It does not correctly advise a member what to do in the case of when they simply decide to change their mind for any reason whatsoever and that they may have up to as much as 28 days to return the device.



Message 1 of 16
by: nominate
on: 17/06/2018 | 18:27 edited: 17/06/2018 | 19:00
Click to reveal

frpc wrote:

Hi @timo_t I know you are leaving but this in Terms & Conditiions needs a fix to make it lawful

 

9.5. Any returns or refunds in respect of devices purchased from us are subject to our returns policy You may return a device to us once for a full refund within 14 calendar days from the date of delivery <snip>

 

Yet the Government website says this is unlawful?  In fact members have up to 28 (clear) days to reject goods, for any reason and return unwanted goods, not 14 days as suggested in T&C

 https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds

 

"You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you."

 

What it means in practice is that if you get delivery on the 1st of the month, the clock starts ticking from the next day the 2nd, allowing a member to inform giffgaff that they wish to return the goods on any day upto and including the 15th day of the month. From the date of informing you of the wish, they have 14 further days to return the goods, which for example in June would be the 29th. A full 28 days following the receipt of the goods and 14 days after the latest they can tell you of their decision to return the device.

 

The current T&C gives the wrong impression of just 14 days in total, when consumer law clearly states it can be up to 28 days.

 

Hope you can implement the T&C needed changes prior to your departure?

Edit

N.B. The returns policy link in the 2nd paragraph above (taken from T&C 9.5) wrongly directs the member to an Article describing what to do in the case of a faulty device. It does not correctly advise a member what to do in the case of when they simply decide to change their mind for any reason whatsoever an have up to 28 days to return the device.

 

The KB guide states:

 

"If the phone you've bought isn't quite what you wanted, you've got 21 calendar days (14 working days), starting on the day following receipt of the phone, to change your mind and claim a full refund"

 

"Please, ensure that giffgaff receive the phone within 14 days of booking your return" and "giffgaff will unable to process any refunds if the phone is received later than 14 days since the return/repair was booked.

 

https://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Solve-your-questions/Returning-your-phone-amp-SIM-within-21-days-o...

 

The Right To Cancel webpage states

 

"If the phone you've bought isn't quite what you wanted, you've got 21 days, starting on the day following receipt of the phone, to change your mind and claim a full refund"

 

"We will provide you with a confirmation and with a postage-paid label to return the phone, from which point you will have up to 14 calendar days to return your purchase."

 

and

 

"From the moment you activate your SIM, you have 14 days to try out our service and let us know, by following the instructions here, if you want to cancel your registration to giffgaff. This is called the cancellation period."

 

but also

 

"return your phone for a refund during the cancellation period, you’ll also be able to cancel the goodybag and deactivate the SIM at the same time if you want to do so."

 

https://giffgaff.com/support/about-giffgaff/right-to-cancel

 

 

https://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Contribute/Change-of-mind-returns-policy-now-21-days/m-p/21496397#...

Message 2 of 16
by: endorphin
on: 17/06/2018 | 19:11

Hmm, I think it might be that the T&C's are poorly worded. You have to inform giffgaff you want to return an item within 14 days of receiving it. You then have an additional 14 days in which to do so. giffgaff have then 14 days to give out the refund.

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Message 3 of 16
by: frpc
on: 17/06/2018 | 19:12
Click to reveal

nominate wrote:

Click to reveal

frpc wrote:

Hi @timo_t I know you are leaving but this in Terms & Conditiions needs a fix to make it lawful

 

9.5. Any returns or refunds in respect of devices purchased from us are subject to our returns policy You may return a device to us once for a full refund within 14 calendar days from the date of delivery <snip>

 

Yet the Government website says this is unlawful?  In fact members have up to 28 (clear) days to reject goods, for any reason and return unwanted goods, not 14 days as suggested in T&C

 https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds

 

"You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you."

 

What it means in practice is that if you get delivery on the 1st of the month, the clock starts ticking from the next day the 2nd, allowing a member to inform giffgaff that they wish to return the goods on any day upto and including the 15th day of the month. From the date of informing you of the wish, they have 14 further days to return the goods, which for example in June would be the 29th. A full 28 days following the receipt of the goods and 14 days after the latest they can tell you of their decision to return the device.

 

The current T&C gives the wrong impression of just 14 days in total, when consumer law clearly states it can be up to 28 days.

 

Hope you can implement the T&C needed changes prior to your departure?

Edit

N.B. The returns policy link in the 2nd paragraph above (taken from T&C 9.5) wrongly directs the member to an Article describing what to do in the case of a faulty device. It does not correctly advise a member what to do in the case of when they simply decide to change their mind for any reason whatsoever an have up to 28 days to return the device.

 

The KB guide states:

 

"If the phone you've bought isn't quite what you wanted, you've got 21 calendar days (14 working days), starting on the day following receipt of the phone, to change your mind and claim a full refund"

 

https://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Solve-your-questions/Returning-your-phone-amp-SIM-within-21-days-o...

 

The Right To Cancel webpage states

 

"If the phone you've bought isn't quite what you wanted, you've got 21 days, starting on the day following receipt of the phone, to change your mind and claim a full refund"

 

and

 

"From the moment you activate your SIM, you have 14 days to try out our service and let us know, by following the instructions here, if you want to cancel your registration to giffgaff. This is called the cancellation period."

 

https://giffgaff.com/support/about-giffgaff/right-to-cancel

 

 

https://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Contribute/Change-of-mind-returns-policy-now-21-days/m-p/21496397#...

Thanks @nominate 

 

However as I think you know the KB (knowledge base) are guidance notes written, interpreted and edited mainly by community members.

 

ConverselyTerms and Conditions come from and are published by the giffgaff Management Team with oversight from the Legal Eagles and hopefully a little of members input.

 

T&C are the regulations to which everyone must agree, if they want to become and remain a Member. 

 

That said, the T&C must be lawful in construction and comply with the Unfair Contracts Act

 

The fact that the KB conflicts with the 2018 T&Cs are a worry and that is one of the reasons I raised it today.

 



Message 4 of 16
by: nominate
on: 17/06/2018 | 19:48

endorphin wrote:

Hmm, I think it might be that the T&C's are poorly worded. You have to inform giffgaff you want to return an item within 14 days of receiving it. You then have an additional 14 days in which to do so. giffgaff have then 14 days to give out the refund.

giffgaff increased the time limit to advise them that you want to return the phone from 14 to 21 days without any announcement I believe, I only become aware of it after seeing this thread in Contribute.

 

Presumably this is just yet another example of gg not ensuring all relevant information is updated correctly a bit like the payback dates after each and every payout!

 

Message 5 of 16
by: frpc
on: 17/06/2018 | 20:06
Click to reveal

endorphin wrote:

Hmm, I think it might be that the T&C's are poorly worded. You have to inform giffgaff you want to return an item within 14 days of receiving it. You then have an additional 14 days in which to do so. giffgaff have then 14 days to give out the refund.

@endorphin You are not wrong when you say the T&C's are poorly worded. That is the purpose of the OP.

 

From the date of receipt of of internet ordered goods the customer must receive a full refund within a Legal maximum of 42 days for goods they have decided to return, for any reason.

 

1. Consumer has upto14 days to decide                 whether to keep or return goods.

 

2. Consumer then has upto 14 days to return        the goods.

     

3.Upto 14 days for the retailer to pay refund.

 

In fact you have highlighted a futher inconsistency. Uk Consumer Law says and giffgaff T&C's agrees that refunds must be paid within 14 days.

 

However giffgaff goes further and says on the order form that, Refunds will be paid within 5 working days (around 7/8/9 calendar days, depending on weekends/Bank Holidays)

 

So T&C actually understate and undermine the giffgaff promise that Members can seperately legally rely on, the 5 working day Refund Promise.

 

That makes the T&C doubly unlawful.  Creating the wrongful impression within the Legal area of T&C that radically conflicts with their advertising offer and KB advice.

 



Message 6 of 16
by: frpc
on: 17/06/2018 | 20:28 edited: 17/06/2018 | 21:36
Click to reveal

nominate wrote:

endorphin wrote:

Hmm, I think it might be that the T&C's are poorly worded. You have to inform giffgaff you want to return an item within 14 days of receiving it. You then have an additional 14 days in which to do so. giffgaff have then 14 days to give out the refund.

giffgaff increased the time limit to advise them that you want to return the phone from 14 to 21 days without any announcement I believe, I only become aware of it after seeing this thread in Contribute.

 

Presumably this is just yet another example of gg not ensuring all relevant information is updated correctly a bit like the payback dates after each and every payout!

 

@nominate To me, there is very little difference between giffgaff offering 14 working days (nearly 3 Weeks) and a 21 hyped Calendar days, except that yet again,  the Bible of T&C does not reflect the advertised changes correctly.

 



Message 7 of 16
by: nominate
on: 17/06/2018 | 20:50 edited: 17/06/2018 | 20:52

frpc wrote:

Click to reveal

nominate wrote:

endorphin wrote:

Hmm, I think it might be that the T&C's are poorly worded. You have to inform giffgaff you want to return an item within 14 days of receiving it. You then have an additional 14 days in which to do so. giffgaff have then 14 days to give out the refund.

giffgaff increased the time limit to advise them that you want to return the phone from 14 to 21 days without any announcement I believe, I only become aware of it after seeing this thread in Contribute.

 

Presumably this is just yet another example of gg not ensuring all relevant information is updated correctly a bit like the payback dates after each and every payout!

 

@nominate To me, there is very little difference between giffgaff offering 14 working days (nearly 3 Weeks) and a 21 hyped Calendar days, except that yet sgain the Bible of T&C does not reflect the advertised changes.

 

Maybe not but there is a considerable difference between the original returns notification period of "14 calendar days" still mentioned in the T&Cs and the increased returns notification period of " 21 calendar days"  as mentioned in the KB and on the Right To Cancel page Smiley Wink

Message 8 of 16
by: frpc
on: 17/06/2018 | 21:30
Click to reveal

nominate wrote:

frpc wrote:

Click to reveal

nominate wrote:

endorphin wrote:

Hmm, I think it might be that the T&C's are poorly worded. You have to inform giffgaff you want to return an item within 14 days of receiving it. You then have an additional 14 days in which to do so. giffgaff have then 14 days to give out the refund.

giffgaff increased the time limit to advise them that you want to return the phone from 14 to 21 days without any announcement I believe, I only become aware of it after seeing this thread in Contribute.

 

Presumably this is just yet another example of gg not ensuring all relevant information is updated correctly a bit like the payback dates after each and every payout!

 

@nominate To me, there is very little difference between giffgaff offering 14 working days (nearly 3 Weeks) and a 21 hyped Calendar days, except that yet sgain the Bible of T&C does not reflect the advertised changes.

 

Maybe not but there is a considerable difference between the original returns notification period of "14 calendar days" still mentioned in the T&Cs and the increased returns notification period of " 21 calendar days"  as mentioned in the KB and on the Right To Cancel page Smiley Wink

@nominate 

 

The member has up-to 28 Calender days to return the device under Uk Consumer Law.

 

Both of the mentions of 14 & 21 Calendar days are technically incorrect and are unlawful descriptions under Consumer law.

 

Websites should give consistently accurate descriptions, so as not to confuse buying customers.

 

 



Message 9 of 16
by: nominate
on: 17/06/2018 | 21:58 edited: 17/06/2018 | 22:04

frpc wrote:

Click to reveal

nominate wrote:

frpc wrote:

Click to reveal

nominate wrote:

endorphin wrote:

Hmm, I think it might be that the T&C's are poorly worded. You have to inform giffgaff you want to return an item within 14 days of receiving it. You then have an additional 14 days in which to do so. giffgaff have then 14 days to give out the refund.

giffgaff increased the time limit to advise them that you want to return the phone from 14 to 21 days without any announcement I believe, I only become aware of it after seeing this thread in Contribute.

 

Presumably this is just yet another example of gg not ensuring all relevant information is updated correctly a bit like the payback dates after each and every payout!

 

@nominate To me, there is very little difference between giffgaff offering 14 working days (nearly 3 Weeks) and a 21 hyped Calendar days, except that yet sgain the Bible of T&C does not reflect the advertised changes.

 

Maybe not but there is a considerable difference between the original returns notification period of "14 calendar days" still mentioned in the T&Cs and the increased returns notification period of " 21 calendar days"  as mentioned in the KB and on the Right To Cancel page Smiley Wink

@nominate 

 

The member has up-to 28 Calender days to return the device under Uk Consumer Law.

 

Both of the mentions of 14 & 21 Calendar days are technically incorrect and are unlawful descriptions under Consumer law.

 

Websites should give consistently accurate descriptions, so as not to confuse buying customers.

 

 

I agree about consistently accurate descriptions on the website but consistency and accuracy have never been a giffgaff forte!

 

However I'm not sure that 21 days would be unlawful especially when it's allowing the buyer more time to return the phone.

 

For example giffgaff now allow the buyer 35 days to advise them of and return the phone compared to the minimum of 28 days required by law.

 

 

Message 10 of 16