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Tidying up a few loose ends with prefixes & prices II

Started by: ian011
On: 09/09/2015 | 12:00
Replies: 20
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Highlighted
by: ian011
on: 09/09/2015 | 12:00 edited: 14/11/2016 | 12:05

 

Upon joining the site just over 18 months ago, I noticed a number of errors and omissions in the pricing details and set about listing these. Some of them have been actioned, but many have not. The oldest ones have since sunk out of sight.

 

This post attempts to re-list many of the outstanding issues in one handy place so that they can be better targetted for action. Many of the issues are literally a single a cut and paste action, or amending two or three words.

 

 

 

 

1. Free text messages to Twitter were suspended on 4 February 2015.

 

Since then, this entry on the price list page has been incorrect:

 

Twitter and Facebook text update Free

 

It needs amending to:

 

Facebook text update Free

 

 

 

2. Take a look at the "non-mobile" numbers entry on the price list page.

 

While calls to these numbers are known to cost 20p per minute, there is some confusion surrounding the cost of text messages sent to these numbers.

 

Please clarify whether this is 20p (as stated on the price list page) or 8p per text as mentioned in various forum threads and then amend this entry to suit.

 

I see that others have asked this question as far back as 2011, but there was no response.

 

 

 

3. The details for premium texts on the price list page are misleading and incorrect:

 

Premium texts

10p to £1.50 per text

 

The cost is actually made up of a "standard message rate" for sending a text and in some cases a premium charge for the text received in return.

 

Giffgaff needs to state what this "standard rate message" cost is. I assume it is 10p, but forum discussion over the last four years occasionally suggests some other rate.

 

Additionally, the top rate for the "premium" part of the cost can be up to £10 per text message.

 

These prices apply to texts sent to and from mobile shortcodes.

 

Suggested replacement wording:

 

Text messages to and from mobile shortcodes

10p network setup fee plus up to £10

per text received, as advised by the

service provider (some are free)

 

 

 

4. The price list page makes no mention of how much calls to mobile shortcodes cost.

 

The cost is set by the service provider and they must declare it wherever their number is advertised.

 

Perhaps this entry could be added?

 

Calls to mobile shortcodes

From free to £5 per call or per minute,
as advised by the service provider

 

 

 

5. The price list page doesn't mention the cost of calling and texting Jersey, Guernsey or Isle of Man. It refers the reader to the international calls page for the costs, but this page fails to list which prefixes these costs apply to.

 

It would be a simple matter to add three entries to the price list to cover this.

 

Calls to landline numbers in Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man
Click to reveal
01481, 01534, 01624.
8p per minute
Calls to mobile numbers in Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man
Click to reveal
074184, 074520, 074521, 074522, 074523, 074524,
074525, 074526, 074576, 075090, 075091, 075092,
075093, 075094, 075095, 075096, 075097, 07524, 07624,
077003, 077007, 077008, 077810, 077811, 077812,
077813, 077814, 077815, 077816, 077817, 077818,
077819, 077977, 077978, 077979, 078297, 078298,
078299, 078391, 078392, 078397, 078398, 079111,
079117, 079240, 079241, 079242, 079243, 079244,
079246, 079247, 079248, 079249, 079370, 079371,
079372, 079373, 079374, 079375, 079376, 079377,
079378, 079379.
16p per minute
Text messages to numbers in Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man
Click to reveal
01481, 01534, 01624
074184, 074520, 074521, 074522, 074523, 074524,
074525, 074526, 074576, 075090, 075091, 075092,
075093, 075094, 075095, 075096, 075097, 07524, 07624,
077003, 077007, 077008, 077810, 077811, 077812,
077813, 077814, 077815, 077816, 077817, 077818,
077819, 077977, 077978, 077979, 078297, 078298,
078299, 078391, 078392, 078397, 078398, 079111,
079117, 079240, 079241, 079242, 079243, 079244,
079246, 079247, 079248, 079249, 079370, 079371,
079372, 079373, 079374, 079375, 079376, 079377,
079378, 079379.
8p per text

 

 

 

6. On the price list page, the first table is a jumble of call costs and other costs. The next three items below address this.

 

Some clarity will be gained by splitting this entry into two parts...

 

Calls, texts, call forwarding and video calls to giffgaff Free

 

as follows...

 

Calls to giffgaff mobile numbers Free
Call forwarding, text messages and video calls to giffgaff numbers Free

 

Below is a further suggestion for sorting these entries into a more readable order.

 

 

 

7. In order to avoid 'bill shock' it is important to clarify which prefixes are used by mobile phones.

 

I suggest splitting this entry into two parts...

 

Calls to other UK mobiles, landlines (starting 01, 02, 03) 10p per minute

 

as follows...

 

Calls to standard UK landline numbers starting 01, 02, 03 10p per minute
Calls to standard UK mobile numbers starting 071–075 and 077–079 10p per minute

 

In conjunction with another suggestion below, clarity will be much improved.

 

 

 

8. On the price list page, the order of entries in the first table seems completely random, making it hard to read.

 

I suggest splitting this table into two smaller tables.

 

The first will list call costs.

 

The second will list text, internet, MMS, video calls, call forwarding and voicemail costs.

 

The final table will remain as it is now, listing "other numbers".

 

 

The overall effect would look something like this:

 

Calls

Calls to standard UK landline numbers starting 01, 02, 03 10p per minute
Calls to landline numbers in Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man
Click to reveal
01481, 01534, 01624.
For details, click here
8p per minute
Calls to giffgaff mobile numbers Free
Calls to standard UK mobile numbers starting 071075 and 077079 10p per minute
Calls to mobile numbers in Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man
Click to reveal
074184, 074520, 074521, 074522, 074523, 074524,
074525, 074526, 074576, 075090, 075091, 075092,
075093, 075094, 075095, 075096, 075097, 07524, 07624,
077003, 077007, 077008, 077810, 077811, 077812,
077813, 077814, 077815, 077816, 077817, 077818,
077819, 077977, 077978, 077979, 078297, 078298,
078299, 078391, 078392, 078397, 078398, 079111,
079117, 079240, 079241, 079242, 079243, 079244,
079246, 079247, 079248, 079249, 079370, 079371,
079372, 079373, 079374, 079375, 079376, 079377,
079378, 079379.
For details, click here
16p per minute
Calls to non-mobile 07 numbers
Click to reveal
074060, 074061, 074062, 074063, 074064, 074065,
074066, 074067, 074068, 074069, 074171, 074172,
074176, 074177, 074179, 074181, 074182, 074185,
074186, 074188, 074390, 074391, 074409, 074410,
074411, 074412, 074414, 074415, 074417, 074418,
074419, 074515, 074516, 074517, 074572, 074574,
074577, 074578, 074579, 074580, 074581, 074582,
074583, 074584, 074588, 074653, 074655, 075200,
075201, 075203, 075204, 075205, 075207, 075208,
075209, 075370, 075373, 075375, 075376, 075377,
075378, 075379, 075590, 075591, 075592, 075593,
075595, 075597, 075598, 075599, 075710, 075718,
075890, 075891, 075892, 075893, 075898, 075899,
077000, 077001, 077442, 077443, 077444, 077445,
077446, 077447, 077448, 077449, 077530, 077552,
077553, 077554, 077555, 078220, 078221, 078222,
078224, 078225, 078226, 078227, 078229, 078644,
078722, 078727, 078730, 078744, 078745, 078922,
078925, 078930, 078931, 078933, 078938, 078939,
079110, 079112, 079118, 079245, 079780, 079781,
079782, 079783, 079784, 079785, 079786, 079787,
079789.
For details, click here
20p per minute
20p?8p? per text
Calls to personal numbers starting 070 50p per minute
Calls to freephone numbers starting 080 Free
Access Charge for calls to numbers starting 084, 087, 090, 091, 098, 118

The organisation being called must declare their Service Charge
wherever their number is advertised.
25p per minute Access Charge
plus Service Charge
Calls to mobile shortcodes

From free to £5 per call or per minute,
as advised by the service provider

 

 

Call forwarding, text messages, video calls, MMS, internet, voicemail

Call forwarding, text messages and video calls to giffgaff numbers Free
Call forwarding to standard UK mobiles and landlines 10p per minute
Text messages to standard UK mobiles and landlines 6p per text
Text messages to numbers in Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man
Click to reveal
01481, 01534, 01624
074184, 074520, 074521, 074522, 074523, 074524,
074525, 074526, 074576, 075090, 075091, 075092,
075093, 075094, 075095, 075096, 075097, 07524, 07624,
077003, 077007, 077008, 077810, 077811, 077812,
077813, 077814, 077815, 077816, 077817, 077818,
077819, 077977, 077978, 077979, 078297, 078298,
078299, 078391, 078392, 078397, 078398, 079111,
079117, 079240, 079241, 079242, 079243, 079244,
079246, 079247, 079248, 079249, 079370, 079371,
079372, 079373, 079374, 079375, 079376, 079377,
079378, 079379.
For details, click here
8p per text
Text messages to and from mobile shortcodes 10p network setup fee plus up to £10
per text received, as advised by the
service provider (some are free)
Facebook text update Free
Video calls to other mobiles 50p per minute
Picture messages (MMS) to giffgaff and other mobiles (max 300KB) 16p per MMS
Mobile Internet (up to 20MB) 20p per day
Voice mail (443) 8p per call

 

 

Other UK Numbers

Freephone numbers starting 0500 Free
Corporate numbers starting 055 20p per minute
VoIP numbers starting 056 8p per minute
Pager numbers starting 076 40p per minute
Police non-emergency number (101) 15p per call
Power Cuts and Blackouts Line (105) Free (New Service Starts April 2016)
NHS non-emergency number (111) Free
Emergency Call (112 or 999) Free
Support helplines starting 116 Free
Speaking clock (123) 15p per call

 

 

 

9. The Special Charges Code of Practice page was updated on 2 February 2015 to add five new entries to the "non-mobile numbers" list.

 

They are: 074414, 075200, 075201, 075378, 075379

 

The "non-mobile numbers" PDF file is now out of date.

 

I originally suggested this update more than a year ago, along with these other suggestions...

 

- Arrange the list of numbers in the "non-mobile numbers" PDF into a three column layout like that already used in the premium rate numbers price list PDF.

 

- While calls to these "non-mobile" numbers are known to cost 20p per minute, there is some confusion surrounding the cost of text messages sent to these numbers. Please clarify whether this is 20p (as stated on the price list page) or 8p as mentioned in various forum threads and add this text to the PDF.

 

- Ensure the prefixes are arranged in numerical order.

 

- Amend the PDF version number and update the publication date.

 

 

The "non-mobile numbers" list on the price list page was updated in March 2015, but the list was then not in sync with the one found on the Special Charges Code of Practice page.

 

Special Charges Code of Practice page (as of 3 March 2015):

Click to reveal

074060, 074061, 074062, 074063, 074064, 074065, 074066, 074067, 074068, 074069, 074171, 074172, 074176, 074177, 074179, 074181, 074182, 074185, 074186, 074188, 074390, 074391, 074409, 074410, 074411, 074412, 074414, 074415, 074417, 074418, 074419, 074515, 074516, 074517, 074572, 074574, 074577, 074578, 074579, 074580, 074581, 074582, 074583, 074584, 074588, 074653, 074655, 075200, 075201, 075203, 075204, 075205, 075207, 075208, 075209, 075370, 075373, 075375, 075376, 075377, 075378, 075379, 075590, 075591, 075592, 075593, 075595, 075597, 075598, 075599, 075710, 075718, 075890, 075891, 075892, 075893, 075898, 075899, 077000, 077001, 077442, 077443, 077444, 077445, 077446, 077447, 077448, 077449, 077530, 077552, 077553, 077554, 077555, 078220, 078221, 078222, 078224, 078225, 078226, 078227, 078229, 078644, 078722, 078727, 078730, 078744, 078745, 078922, 078925, 078930, 078931, 078933, 078938, 078939, 079110, 079112, 079118, 079245, 079780, 079781, 079782, 079783, 079784, 079785, 079786, 079787, 079789.

The five items underlined above (074414, 075200, 075201, 075378, 075379) were added to the Special Charges Code of Practice page on 2 February 2015.

 

Price List page (as of 3 March 2015):

Click to reveal
074060, 074061, 074062, 074063, 074064, 074065, 074066, 074067, 074068, 074069, 074171, 074172, 074176, 074177, 074179, 074181, 074182, 074185, 074186, 074188, 074390, 074391, 074409, 074410, 074411, 074412, 074415, 074417, 074418, 074419, 074515, 074516, 074517, 074572, 074574, 074577, 074578, 074579, 074580, 074581, 074582, 074583, 074584, 074653, 074655, 075200, 075201, 075203, 075204, 075205, 075207, 075208, 075209, 075370, 075373, 075375, 075376, 075377, 075378, 075379, 075590, 075591, 075592, 075593, 075595, 075597, 075598, 075710, 075718, 075890, 075891, 075892, 075893, 075898, 075899, 077000, 077001, 077442, 077443, 077444, 077445, 077446, 077447, 077448, 077449, 077530, 077552, 077553, 077554, 077555, 078220, 078221, 078222, 078224, 078225, 078226, 078227, 078229, 078644, 078722, 078727, 078730, 078744, 078745, 078922, 078925, 078930, 078931, 078933, 078938, 078939, 079110, 079112, 079118, 079245, 079780, 079781, 079782, 079783, 079784, 079785, 079786, 079787, 079789.

It appears that sometime in the few days prior to 3 March 2015:

  • 075200, 075201, 075378, 075379 were added to the list on the price list page
  • 074414 was not added to the list on the price list page
  • 074588, 075599 were removed from the list on the price list page.

 

- A further update, just a few months ago, removed the 074580 and 074581 prefixes from the list.

 

- At some point, 074414 was added to the price list page.

 

- At some point, 074588 was re-added to the price list page.

 

- At some point, 074589 was removed from the Special Charges Code of Practice page.

 

With various un-announced changes being made, I have little confidence that the current list is completely correct.

 

The current list on both pages is

 

074060, 074061, 074062, 074063, 074064, 074065, 074066, 074067, 074068, 074069, 074171, 074172, 074176, 074177, 074179, 074181, 074182, 074185, 074186, 074188, 074390, 074391, 074409, 074410, 074411, 074412, 074414, 074415, 074417, 074418, 074419, 074515, 074516, 074517, 074572, 074574, 074577, 074578, 074579, 074582, 074583, 074584, 074588, 074653, 074655, 075200, 075201, 075203, 075204, 075205, 075207, 075208, 075209, 075370, 075373, 075375, 075376, 075377, 075378, 075379, 075590, 075591, 075592, 075593, 075595, 075597, 075598, 075599, 075710, 075718, 075890, 075891, 075892, 075893, 075898, 075899, 077000, 077001, 077442, 077443, 077444, 077445, 077446, 077447, 077448, 077449, 077530, 077552, 077553, 077554, 077555, 078220, 078221, 078222, 078224, 078225, 078226, 078227, 078229, 078644, 078722, 078727, 078730, 078744, 078745, 078922, 078925, 078930, 078931, 078933, 078938, 078939, 079110, 079112, 079118, 079245, 079780, 079781, 079782, 079783, 079784, 079785, 079786, 079787, 079789.

 

With various changes over time, the current version would now be something like 1.4 or more.

 

 

 

10. giffgaff charges calls and texts to Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man numbers at a different rate to that charged for calls and texts to mainland landline and mobile numbers.

 

Ofcom requires a clear declaration of this, and a list of which prefixes this applies to. Some initial research suggests the list should contain these prefixes:

 

landline: 01481, 01534, 01624

 

mobile: 074184, 074520, 074521, 074522, 074523, 074524, 074525, 074526, 074576, 075090, 075091, 075092, 075093, 075094, 075095, 075096, 075097, 07524, 07624, 077003, 077007, 077008, 077810, 077811, 077812, 077813, 077814, 077815, 077816, 077817, 077818, 077819, 077977, 077978, 077979, 078297, 078298, 078299, 078391, 078392, 078397, 078398, 079111, 079117, 079240, 079241, 079242, 079243, 079244, 079246, 079247, 079248, 079249, 079370, 079371, 079372, 079373, 079374, 079375, 079376, 079377, 079378, 079379.

 

Modelled on the existing PDF list of "non-mobile" prefixes, please create a new PDF file listing the prefixes for Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man numbers. These are currently charged at 8p per minute to landlines, 16p per minute to mobiles, 8p per text and 24p per MMS. Whether this is a single list or is arranged as three separate columns, one for each location, is up to you.

 

Arrange the list of prefixes into a three column layout, similar to that used in the premium rate numbers price list, so that it occupies a lesser number of pages.

 

Ensure the prefixes within the list(s) are in numerical order.

 

Add a version number and publication date.

 

 

 

11. The current version of the "non-mobile numbers" PDF list (dated 26 November 2013) can be found here. It lists various 07 prefixes which are used by a variety of dial-through and automated services and which do not count towards goodybag allowances. These calls are charged at 20p per minute.

 

There are many forum posts mentioning the fact that there are a number of similar services using 01 and 02 landline numbers. These are supposedly charged at 8p per minute and, likewise, do not count towards goodybag allowances. There is no mention of these in giffgaff price lists or elsewhere.

 

Please create a PDF list of these "non-landline" prefixes.

 

For clarity, please also arrange the list of prefixes into a three column layout like that used in the premium rate numbers PDF list.

 

 

 

12. The roaming prices on the international page at http://giffgaff.com/index/international very much look like they were added as an afterthought.

 

Additionally, some of the prices are incorrect as they use the wrong rate of VAT. Someone else pointed that out almost 18 months ago, but the information hasn't been updated.

 

Can I suggest splitting the roaming costs out to a new page at http://giffgaff.com/index/roaming where they can then be updated, the page layout improved and some additional tips added?

 

 

 

13. When lists of prefixes or countries are presented, there seems to be an ongoing aversion to presenting these in either numeric or alphabetical order. This has happened with the price list, the non-mobile numbers list, the list of directory enquiries numbers, and latterly the various updates to international call pricing posted on the blog.

 

In future, please sort these types of list into a readable order before publishing.

 

Additionally, as some people seem unable to comprehend that a "list of changes" will list only those items that have actually changed, whenever you issue a list of international call price changes on the blog, please add a single line to the end of the list that says something like:

 

"No price change : All countries NOT listed above".

 

 

 

14. There have been a number of important changes in regulation and guidance on the use of 084 and 087 numbers in the last 18 months.

 

In the middle of 2014 I was asked to write an article detailing these changes and how they affect callers. That article was drafted in the Autumn 2014 and then shelved awaiting several developments.

 

The article was further revised and updated in January 2015 and submitted to the Knowledge Base. It can be found here (awaiting publication).

 

 

 

15. A new system of call charges for 084, 087, 09 and 118 numbers came into effect on 1 July 2015. It affected call prices for all landline and mobile providers.

 

In July 2014 I put together an article with the details and then shelved it awaiting Ofcom getting their UK Calling website online (happened mid-September 2014) and the publication of the list of Service Charges (happened mid-December 2014).

 

The article was revised and updated in January 2015 and submitted to the Knowledge Base. It can be found here (awaiting publication).

 

These are the biggest changes to non-geographic numbers in more than a decade but many of those posting in Help and Support remain completely unaware that anything has changed.

 

 

 

16. People are still arriving at the gigabags page and being disappointed that only 500MB and 1GB options are seemingly available. Many are completely unaware that they also have the option to buy a goodybag with a larger allowance for use in their mi-fi or dongle to use with a tablet or laptop.

 

Please add some extra text to the gigabags page explaining this option.

 

 

Related articles:

List of fixes for prefixes and prices

Tracking ongoing issues with prefixes and prices

Tidying up a few loose ends with prefixes & prices

Tidying up a few loose ends with prefixes & prices II

Tidying up a few loose ends with prefixes & prices III

 

Message 1 of 21
by: blackfive460
on: 09/09/2015 | 12:09

@ian011

I admire your persistence.

giffgaff should hand over management of the pricing pages to you.

Message 3 of 21
by: bill48er
on: 10/09/2015 | 10:15

Hi Ian

 

The world loves a trier Smiley Happy

 

@blackfive460's suggestion would get my vote!

 

May be @gregg_b would like to take up this as part of the August-Community-Health-Survey challenge on impovements.

Forum Etiquette: If a post answers your question please accept it as "Best Answer" so that others may find it.
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Message 4 of 21
by: keithctaylor
on: 10/09/2015 | 10:19

Another fine example of your persistence Ian. Thanks very much.

 

Do you think it would be good to link to this thread in your sig (Ideas track), instead of your earlier summary?

Message 5 of 21
by: bill48er
on: 10/09/2015 | 10:48

keithctaylor wrote:

 

Another fine example of your persistence Ian. Thanks very much.

 

Do you think it would be good to link to this thread in your sig (Ideas track), instead of your earlier summary?

 

 

Is it just me or are the "sigs" missing this AM.

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Message 6 of 21
by: endorphin
on: 10/09/2015 | 11:30 edited: 10/09/2015 | 11:31

I admire your in depth knowledge and tenacity @ian011 Smiley Happy

It's a shame that giffgaff is slow to fully incorporate your very detailed, relevant and useful information.

Get a free giffgaff SIM/microSIM/nanoSIM with free £5 credit
Message 7 of 21
by: keithctaylor
on: 10/09/2015 | 12:09

I think it's just you @bill48er

 

Could you have accidentally switched signature viewing off in http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/user/myprofilepage/tab/user-preferences ?

 

Message 8 of 21
by: wilpatgala
on: 10/09/2015 | 12:26
Phew, it took some reading, though interesting but much more in the research and typing, well done you for pointing all that out to us.
Get a free giffgaff SIM. It includes £5 free credit, yay!
Message 9 of 21
by: bill48er
on: 10/09/2015 | 14:00

keithctaylor wrote:

 

I think it's just you @bill48er

 

Could you have accidentally switched signature viewing off in http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/user/myprofilepage/tab/user-preferences ?

 

 

Thanks for the reply.

I did the checks before posting Smiley Wink

It must have been a transient thing as they reappeared earlier.

This forum is full of "strangeness" these days!

I think we will hand the thread back to Ian now. Smiley LOL

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Give KUDOS if you like what you read!
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Message 10 of 21