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Tidying up a few loose ends with prefixes & prices

Started by: ian011
On: 02/03/2015 | 12:40
Replies: 16
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by: ian011
on: 02/03/2015 | 12:40 edited: 14/11/2016 | 12:04

 

Upon joining the site just over a year ago, I noticed a number of errors and omissions in the pricing details and set about listing these.

 

Some of them have been actioned, but many have not. The oldest ones have since sunk out of sight and a recent glitch with lithium means that some of them no longer show up in the forum at all. If they don't show up, they can't be fixed.

 

This post attempts to re-list many of the outstanding issues in one handy place so that they can be better targetted for action. Many of the issues are literally a single a cut and paste action, or amending two or three words.

 

 

 

 

1. The bottom table on the price list page is difficult to read as it is not in numeric order.

 

For clarity, can I suggest:

- swap 112 with 101

- swap 123 with 116

- swap 118 with 0500

thereby putting the list in numerical order:

 

0500, 055, 056, 076, 101, 111, 112/999, 116, 118402/118, 123.

 

 

 

2. In the bottom table on the price list page, the clarity of DQ pricing could be improved

 

Directory Enquiries starting 118
Calls to 118402 (charged £1 per minute).
More information on £4 charges click here
£2 to £4 per minute

 

by splitting the 118402 entry on to a separate line with its price in the right column, thus

 

Calls to 118402 Directory Enquiries £1 per minute
Directory Enquiries starting 118
More information on £4 charges click here
All others charged at £2 per minute.
£2 to £4 per minute

 

 

 

3. Free text messages to Twitter were suspended on 4 February 2015.

 

Since then, this entry on the price list page has been incorrect:

 

Twitter and Facebook text update Free

 

It needs amending to:

 

Facebook text update Free

 

 

 

4. Take a look at the "non-mobile" numbers entry on the price list page.

 

While calls to these numbers are known to cost 20p per minute, there is some confusion surrounding the cost of text messages sent to these numbers.

 

Please clarify whether this is 20p (as stated on the price list page) or 8p per text as mentioned in various forum threads and then amend this entry to suit.

 

 

 

5. The Special Charges Code of Practice was updated almost a month ago to add five new entries in the "non-mobile numbers" list.

 

They are: 074414, 075200, 075201, 075378, 075379

 

The table of "non-mobile numbers" on the price list page also needs these five entries added.

 

 

 

6. The details for premium texts on the price list page are misleading and incorrect:

 

Premium texts

10p to £1.50 per text

 

The cost is actually made up of a "standard message rate" for sending a text and in some cases a premium charge for the text received in return.

 

Giffgaff needs to state what this "standard rate message" cost is. I assume it is 10p, but forum discussion over the last four years occasionally suggests some other rate.

 

Additionally, the top rate for the "premium" part of the cost can be up to £10 per text message.

 

These prices apply to texts sent to and from mobile shortcodes.

 

Suggested replacement wording:

 

Premium text messages and shortcodes 10p network setup fee plus
up to £10 per text received

 

 

 

7. The price list page makes no mention of how much calls to mobile shortcodes cost.

 

The cost is set by the service provider and they must declare it wherever their number is advertised.

 

Perhaps this entry could be added?

 

Calling mobile shortcodes

From free to £5 per call or per minute,
as advised by the service provider

 

 

 

8. On the price list page, the cost of calling premium rate numbers could be better explained.

 

The current entry says this:

 

Calls to premium rate numbers starting 090, 091, 098.
For detailed listing click here
50p to £2.50 per minute

 

The suggestion is to replace the right hand entry with more detailed text:

 

Calls to premium rate numbers starting 090, 091, 098.
For detailed listing click here
50p to 80p per call, or
80p to £2.50 per minute

 

 

 

9. There's a massive change coming to premium rate call pricing on 1 July 2015.

 

Can I suggest adding some text to the first page of future versions of the premium rate numbers PDF file?

 

" Note: There are significant industry-wide changes being made to the way call charges for 084, 087, 090, 091, 098 and 118 numbers are displayed on and after 1 July 2015. Additional information is available from Ofcom's ukcalling.info website and this article. "

 

The three column layout used for the prefix list itself is great. Please retain this.

 

Greater clarity may be achieved by adding a leading zero to each of the prefixes in that list.

 

 

 

10. The Special Charges Code of Practice page was updated almost a month ago to add five new entries to the "non-mobile numbers" list.

 

They are: 074414, 075200, 075201, 075378, 075379

 

The "non-mobile numbers" PDF file is now out of date.

 

I originally suggested this update some six months ago, along with these other suggestions...

 

- Arrange the list of numbers in the "non-mobile numbers" PDF into a three column layout like that already used in the premium rate numbers price list PDF.

 

- While calls to these "non-mobile" numbers are known to cost 20p per minute, there is some confusion surrounding the cost of text messages sent to these numbers. Please clarify whether this is 20p (as stated on the price list page) or 8p as mentioned in various forum threads and add this text to the PDF.

 

- Ensure the prefixes are arranged in numerical order.

 

- Amend the PDF version number to "1.2" and update the publication date.

 

 

 

11. The 118 Directory Enquiries price list PDF could do with a bit of TLC. The current version is over a year old.

 

Fix the spelling mistake, from "bellow" to "below".

 

Change "£1 ppm" to "£1 per minute".

Change "£2 ppm" to "£2 per minute".

Change "£4 ppm" to "£4 per minute".

 

The numbers are not in numerical order. This makes the list very difficult to read.

Sort the list of 118 numbers into numerical order.

 

Currently there are 93 entries but there are only 80 unique numbers in the list.

Remove the 13 duplicate entries from the list.

 

If there are any entries missing from the list, add those new entries.

 

Arrange the list of numbers into a three column layout like that already used in the premium rate numbers PDF list.

 

Add some extra text to the first page:

 

" Note: There are significant industry-wide changes being made to the way call charges for 084, 087, 090, 091, 098 and 118 numbers are displayed on and after 1 July 2015. Additional information is available from Ofcom's ukcalling.info website and this article. "

 

Amend the version number to "1.2" and update the publication date.

 

 

 

12. giffgaff charges calls and texts to Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man numbers at a different rate to that charged for calls and texts to mainland landline and mobile numbers.

 

Ofcom requires a clear declaration of this, and a list of which prefixes this applies to. Some initial research suggests the list should contain these prefixes:

 

landline: 01481, 01534, 01624

 

mobile: 074184, 074520, 074521, 074522, 074523, 074524, 074525, 074526, 074576, 075090, 075091, 075092, 075093, 075094, 075095, 075096, 075097, 07524, 07624, 077003, 077007, 077008, 077810, 077811, 077812, 077813, 077814, 077815, 077816, 077817, 077818, 077819, 077977, 077978, 077979, 078297, 078298, 078299, 078391, 078392, 078397, 078398, 079111, 079117, 079240, 079241, 079242, 079243, 079244, 079246, 079247, 079248, 079249, 079370, 079371, 079372, 079373, 079374, 079375, 079376, 079377, 079378, 079379.

 

Modelled on the existing PDF list of "non-mobile" prefixes, please create a new PDF file listing the prefixes for Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man numbers. These are currently charged at 8p per minute to landlines, 16p per minute to mobiles, 8p per text and 24p per MMS. Whether this is a single list or is arranged as three separate columns, one for each location, is up to you.

 

Arrange the list of prefixes into a three column layout, similar to that used in the premium rate numbers price list, so that it occupies a lesser number of pages.

 

Ensure the prefixes within the list(s) are in numerical order.

 

Add a version number and publication date.

 

 

 

13. The current version of the "non-mobile numbers" PDF list (dated 26 November 2013) can be found here. It lists various 07 prefixes which are used by a variety of dial-through and automated services and which do not count towards goodybag allowances. These calls are charged at 20p per minute.

 

There are many forum posts mentioning the fact that there are a number of similar services using 01 and 02 landline numbers. These are supposedly charged at 8p per minute and, likewise, do not count towards goodybag allowances. There is no mention of these in giffgaff price lists or elsewhere.

 

Please create a PDF list of these "non-landline" prefixes.

 

For clarity, please also arrange the list of prefixes into a three column layout like that used in the premium rate numbers PDF list.

 

 

 

14. On the price list page, the first table is a jumble of call costs and other costs. The next three items below address this.

 

Some clarity will be gained by splitting this entry into two parts...

 

Calls, texts, call forwarding and video calls to giffgaff Free

 

as follows...

 

Calls to giffgaff mobile numbers Free
Texts, call forwarding and video calls to giffgaff numbers Free

 

Below is a further suggestion for sorting these entries into a more readable order.

 

 

 

15. In order to avoid 'bill shock' it is important to clarify which prefixes are used by mobile phones.

 

I suggest splitting this entry into two parts...

 

Calls to other UK mobiles, landlines (starting 01, 02, 03) 10p per minute

 

as follows...

 

Calls to UK landlines starting 01, 02, 03 10p per minute
Calls to other standard UK mobiles starting 071–075 and 077–079 10p per minute

 

In conjunction with another suggestion below, clarity will be much improved.

 

 

 

16. On the price list page, the order of entries in the first table seems completely random, making it hard to read.

 

I suggest splitting this table into two smaller tables.

 

The first will list call costs.

 

The second will list text, internet, MMS, video calls, call forwarding and voicemail costs.

 

It would look something like this (note, the image is old and contains three errors; these are dealt with in items 3, 4 and 6 above):

 

 pricing.top.12.png

 

 

 

17. The roaming prices on the international page at http://giffgaff.com/index/international very much look like they were added as an afterthought.

 

Additionally, some of the prices are incorrect as they use the wrong rate of VAT. Someone else pointed that out almost a year ago, but the information hasn't been updated.

 

Can I suggest splitting the roaming costs out to a new page at http://giffgaff.com/index/roaming where they can then be updated, the page layout improved and some additional tips added?

 

 

 

18. When lists of prefixes or countries are presented, there seems to be an ongoing aversion to presenting these in either numeric or alphabetical order. This has happened with the price list, the non-mobile numbers list, the list of directory enquiries numbers, and latterly the various updates to international call pricing posted on the blog.

 

In future, please sort these types of list into a readable order before publishing.

 

Additionally, as some people seem unable to comprehend that a "list of changes" will list only those items that have actually changed, whenever you issue a list of international call price changes on the blog, please add a single line to the end of the list that says something like:

 

"No price change : All countries NOT listed above".

 

 

 

19. The price list page contains the following statement:

 

"Unless otherwise stated, call prices include VAT, are quoted by the minute and are charged in one second increment after the first minute. A one minute minimum call charge applies unless otherwise stated. Calls to 055, 056, 070, 076, 084 and 087 numbers are charged in one minute increments."

 

This statement will need amending on 1 July 2015, when the arrangements for 084, 087, 09 and 118 numbers change.

 

In January 2015 I submitted two new articles to the Knowledge Base. One details which calls are charged by the second, by the minute and per call. The other details inclusive, free and non-inclusive calls, texts and services. They can be found here and here (awaiting publication).

 

 

 

20. There have been a number of important changes in regulation and guidance on the use of 084 and 087 numbers in the last 18 months.

 

In the middle of 2014 I was asked to write an article detailing these changes and how they affect callers. That article was drafted in the Autumn 2014 and then shelved awaiting several developments.

 

The article was further revised and updated in January 2015 and submitted to the Knowledge Base. It can be found here (awaiting publication).

 

 

 

21. A new system of call charges for 084, 087, 09 and 118 numbers comes into effect on 1 July 2015. It affects call prices for all landline and mobile providers.

 

In July 2014 I put together an article with the details and then shelved it awaiting Ofcom getting their UK Calling website online (happened mid-September 2014) and the publication of the list of Service Charges (happened mid-December 2014).

 

The article was revised and updated in January 2015 and submitted to the Knowledge Base. It can be found here (awaiting publication).

 

These are the biggest changes to non-geographic numbers in more than a decade and Ofcom have been running adverts in national newspapers about this since the beginning of February 2015. I see that BT, Asda, Tesco, O2, Sky and others already have information on their website about these changes.

 

 

 

22. People are still arriving at the gigabags page and being disappointed that only 500MB and 1GB options are seemingly available. Many are completely unaware that they also have the option to buy a 3GB or 5GB goodybag for use in their mi-fi or dongle to use with a tablet or laptop.

 

Please add some extra text to the gigabags page explaining this option and of course mentioning that "unlimited" goodybags cannot be used in this way.

 

 

Related articles:

List of fixes for prefixes and prices

Tracking ongoing issues with prefixes and prices

Tidying up a few loose ends with prefixes & prices

Tidying up a few loose ends with prefixes & prices II

Tidying up a few loose ends with prefixes & prices III

 

Message 1 of 17
by: sloz
on: 02/03/2015 | 13:02
Nice work ian , very thorough, I've asked for the details about the premium text info to be changed for a long time ( and posted 2 ideas about it)
As I've mentioned to you previously , giffgaff don't have a fixed 10p charge
Texting shortcode numbers could be
Free, 6p, 8p, 10p, 12p, 15p and 20p
(Although I haven't noticed the 15 and 20p charges for a particular number for a while , maybe giffgaff have removed these higher charges and made it a 12p maximum charge)
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Message 2 of 17
by: bill48er
on: 02/03/2015 | 15:02

Well done Ian, another piece of sterling work.

Very comprehensive on a complex subject, it shows how easily the wary could easily incur some hefty charges.

This is the sort of thing that giffgaff should do in-house, I hope they pick up on this - real soon now!

Forum Etiquette: If a post answers your question please accept it as "Best Answer" so that others may find it.
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Message 3 of 17
by: talisker35
on: 02/03/2015 | 19:02

@ian011 

 

Thanks for all your hard work on this, great job.

 

Paul.

Please note I do not receive payback for any posts I make on the giffgaff community.
Message 4 of 17
by: keithctaylor
on: 03/03/2015 | 12:41

This is very commendable @ian011 

 

I've long admired the amount of detailed work you've put in to improve giffgaff. After all that, and then to lose much of it, many would have given up. But no! You summarize everything again.

 

Thanks Ian for your tremendous contributions.

Message 5 of 17
by: ian011
on: 03/03/2015 | 16:27

@sloz wrote:
Nice work Ian. Very thorough. I've asked for the details about the premium text info to be changed for a long time (and posted 2 ideas about it).
As I've mentioned to you previously , giffgaff don't have a fixed 10p charge.
Texting shortcode numbers could be:
Free, 6p, 8p, 10p, 12p, 15p and 20p (although I haven't noticed the 15 and 20p charges for a particular number for a while; maybe giffgaff have removed these higher charges and made it a 12p maximum charge).

Whatever the level of the charges, there's Ofcom and PhonepayPlus requirements to publish them.

 

Service providers are obligated to declare their part of the message cost, the "service charge" or "premium", wherever their number is advertised, and where applicable add "plus the cost of one standard rate message" or similar such wording.

 

Giffgaff's only obligation is to publish their part of the message cost, the "standard message rate", and indicate the potential range of additional service, or "premium", charges that may be added on top by the various service providers.

 

Most mobile phone networks keep things simple by having the same "standard message rate" for all messages sent to mobile shortcodes. Giffgaff are entitled to charge a different rate for the "standard message rate" depending on the actual mobile shortcode the message is sent to, but that does not remove the obligation to publish the rates. Indeed, it makes it more imperative that they do so.

 

 


@bill48er wrote:

Well done Ian, another piece of sterling work.

Very comprehensive on a complex subject, it shows how easily the wary could easily incur some hefty charges.

This is the sort of thing that giffgaff should do in-house, I hope they pick up on this - real soon now!


I recently read a thread from 2011 that explained that giffgaff doesn't have anybody doing this work in-house and they rely on feedback from the members. This thread is that feedback.

 

 


@keithctaylor wrote:

This is very commendable @ian011 

 

I've long admired the amount of detailed work you've put in to improve giffgaff. After all that, and then to lose much of it, many would have given up. But no! You summarize everything again.

 

Thanks Ian for your tremendous contributions.


Lithium appears to be slowly rebuilding the various corrupted Ideas threads. Each of the affected threads seems to have several more old posts restored back into view each day. At the current rate it will be at least several weeks before that process is completed. It therefore remains unknown how many of the missing replies will actually come back into view. All of the various "missing" posts can be seen listed within individual member profiles, they just don't currently appear in the actual Ideas or Blog threads themselves.

 

Message 6 of 17
by: ian011
on: 04/03/2015 | 10:58 edited: 04/03/2015 | 20:12

Some movement on item 5 ("non-mobile numbers") of the list above...

 

The "non-mobile numbers" list on the price list page was updated in the last few days, but the list is now not in sync with the one found on the Special Charges Code of Practice page.

 

 

Special Charges Code of Practice page (as of 3 March 2015):

Click to reveal

074060, 074061, 074062, 074063, 074064, 074065, 074066, 074067, 074068, 074069, 074171, 074172, 074176, 074177, 074179, 074181, 074182, 074185, 074186, 074188, 074390, 074391, 074409, 074410, 074411, 074412, 074414, 074415, 074417, 074418, 074419, 074515, 074516, 074517, 074572, 074574, 074577, 074578, 074579, 074580, 074581, 074582, 074583, 074584, 074588, 074653, 074655, 075200, 075201, 075203, 075204, 075205, 075207, 075208, 075209, 075370, 075373, 075375, 075376, 075377, 075378, 075379, 075590, 075591, 075592, 075593, 075595, 075597, 075598, 075599, 075710, 075718, 075890, 075891, 075892, 075893, 075898, 075899, 077000, 077001, 077442, 077443, 077444, 077445, 077446, 077447, 077448, 077449, 077530, 077552, 077553, 077554, 077555, 078220, 078221, 078222, 078224, 078225, 078226, 078227, 078229, 078644, 078722, 078727, 078730, 078744, 078745, 078922, 078925, 078930, 078931, 078933, 078938, 078939, 079110, 079112, 079118, 079245, 079780, 079781, 079782, 079783, 079784, 079785, 079786, 079787, 079789.

The five items underlined above (074414, 075200, 075201, 075378, 075379) were added to the Special Charges Code of Practice page on 2 February 2015.

 

 

Price List page (as of 3 March 2015):

Click to reveal
074060, 074061, 074062, 074063, 074064, 074065, 074066, 074067, 074068, 074069, 074171, 074172, 074176, 074177, 074179, 074181, 074182, 074185, 074186, 074188, 074390, 074391, 074409, 074410, 074411, 074412, 074415, 074417, 074418, 074419, 074515, 074516, 074517, 074572, 074574, 074577, 074578, 074579, 074580, 074581, 074582, 074583, 074584, 074653, 074655, 075200, 075201, 075203, 075204, 075205, 075207, 075208, 075209, 075370, 075373, 075375, 075376, 075377, 075378, 075379, 075590, 075591, 075592, 075593, 075595, 075597, 075598, 075710, 075718, 075890, 075891, 075892, 075893, 075898, 075899, 077000, 077001, 077442, 077443, 077444, 077445, 077446, 077447, 077448, 077449, 077530, 077552, 077553, 077554, 077555, 078220, 078221, 078222, 078224, 078225, 078226, 078227, 078229, 078644, 078722, 078727, 078730, 078744, 078745, 078922, 078925, 078930, 078931, 078933, 078938, 078939, 079110, 079112, 079118, 079245, 079780, 079781, 079782, 079783, 079784, 079785, 079786, 079787, 079789.

It appears that sometime in the last few days:

  • 075200, 075201, 075378, 075379 were added to the list on the price list page
  • 074414 was not added to the list on the price list page
  • 074588, 075599 were removed from the list on the price list page.

 

The "non-mobile numbers" PDF (item 10 on the list above) is now very much out of date.

 

 

Edit: It seems like at the very same time I was typing the above message, there was an announcement over here.

 

Message 7 of 17
by: silvercentral
on: 05/03/2015 | 15:56
Excellent work, Ian. Clarity in these matters is vital. It would also help people consider giffgaff more seriously when looking to switch networks.
Message 8 of 17
by: richardski
on: 08/03/2015 | 09:21 edited: 08/03/2015 | 09:22

Hi Ian,

 

Brilliant work.

 

giffgaff urgently needs to tidy up these loose ends.

 

Richard

 


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Message 9 of 17
by: ian011
on: 10/03/2015 | 10:41

@silvercentral wrote:
Clarity in these matters is vital. It would also help people consider giffgaff more seriously when looking to switch networks.

From various questions asked in the forum, I already see the lack of clarity leading to confusion. The unwillingness to fix anything almost makes me wonder if someone's bonus is based on the amount of questions asked on the forum.

 

 


@richardski wrote:

giffgaff urgently needs to tidy up these loose ends.


A year has elapsed since many of these issues were first raised. It appears that the word "urgent" does not appear in the giffgaff lexicon. Quite a few of these fixes are amending a small number of words, many of them would take just a few minutes or less.

 

Message 10 of 17