Knowledge Base
Community

Topped up £10 and now £9.99

Started by: ijustcantdoit
On: 16/01/2019 | 21:20
Replies: 72
Reply

by: ijustcantdoit
on: 16/01/2019 | 21:20

I didnt think this still happened on top ups .

I use payg so no great problem but would be well stressed if i wanted a goodybag and now couldnt buy one.

This needs sorted so members dont get angry 

 

“Welcome
Message 1 of 73
by: thunderdragon
on: 16/01/2019 | 21:28 edited: 16/01/2019 | 21:29
I think this might be to do with something on the account back-end, possibly connected with ancient Intel processors and their floating-point issues (You'd be surprised just how much older tech props up todays networks! :-o :-) which cause occasional rounding up or down. Strangely enough - In the few cases where it's hit me - It normally seems to round up rather than down, as in your case! :-o

If ever ye (Or anyone else) tops-up for a GoodyBag and get hit by this problem, contact an Agent and explain you had topped-up for the purpose of buying Goodybag(s) with that credit. They should be able to exchange the credit for the GoodyBag(s) requested and prevent the missing 1p problem stopping you from getting the GoodyBag(s) you wanted. :-)
+++ ThunderDragon +++
WARNING: The "Always On" GoodyBag does NOT offer unlimited data. More details Here.

i before e except after Firefox... Smiley Wink                                     German Sausage jokes: They're the Wurst!... Smiley Tongue
Message 2 of 73
by: revjonty
on: 16/01/2019 | 23:17
Oddly enough a penny has disappeared from my credit as well.
I got 90 pence "goodwill" credit. Got charged 16p for a text to an Irish mobile, and then at some point my credit reduced to 73p (from 74p) yet my usage doesn't show any use, nor should it because this penny disappeared while I didn't even have a phone (I accidentally smashed it).

I noticed the discrepancy when I got a replacement phone.


The penny glitch is alive and well despite claims to the contrary.

Order a sim from here & get a bonus £5 credit upon activation


Get a free giffgaff Sim
Message 3 of 73
by: harrrrrry
on: 17/01/2019 | 09:17 edited: 17/01/2019 | 09:25

@ijustcantdoit

 


I didnt think this still happened on top ups .

It most certainly does. Every day members who do want to buy a goodybag report this exact same problem. It's caused by their phone having outstanding background tasks to do, but no credit to do it with. So the moment they have credit, their phone will immediately go ahead and perform those outstanding tasks, which is likely to use a penny or two of that credit before they are able to buy the goodybag.

 

But why is it that members choose to add credit and then buy the goodybag from the credit instead of just buying the goodybag without adding credit first?

 

Is it because nobody told them there was a better way to do it? If so, everybody should be supporting https://labs.giffgaff.com/idea/16712751/encourage-users-to-buy-goodybags-without-adding-credit-first which asks giffgaff to place this simple tip on https://giffgaff.com/top-up :

 

(PNG Image, 423 × 175 pixels).png

 

The link in the hint takes them to https://giffgaff.com/buy/goodybag where they can buy the goodybag direct from their payment source, so there's no danger of the  phone using a penny or two of credit before being able to buy the goodybag.

 

Get a free giffgaff Sim

Message 4 of 73
by: bluemoonbaz
on: 17/01/2019 | 16:00 edited: 17/01/2019 | 20:47

@ijustcantdoit

Never had this as I buy a goody bag and have recurring set .although I did manage to run out this month and had to manually renew 

But I do agree as you indicate this is still happening , Giffgaff need to look at resolving this asap.

 

@harrrrrry 

great idea and one that could be the answer. 

 

Maybe once a credit is loaded you cannot do anything until you have chosen an option 

A window pops up and says now choose. 

Use as payg credit 

Buy a goody bag 

This way no credit loss because even if they dont do anything and go away when they return it will still be on the pop up window

 

Message 5 of 73
by: jaymailsays
on: 17/01/2019 | 19:48

@harrrrrry wrote:

@ijustcantdoit

(PNG Image, 423 × 175 pixels).png

 

Wouldn't help this member who bought 2×vouchers who lost a penny.

 

https://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Help-Support/Top-up/m-p/22920082#M8548478

Get a free giffgaff Sim
Message 6 of 73
by: ijustcantdoit
on: 17/01/2019 | 21:16

Great idea @harrrrrry if we could get members to do the buy instantly .

@bluemoonbaz

Yes if the members were unable to operate the account until they chose that could work.

@jaymailsays

Thanks for the link and yes that puts another spin on the problem

“Welcome
Message 7 of 73
by: revjonty
on: 18/01/2019 | 04:30

@harrrrrry wrote:

@ijustcantdoit

 


I didnt think this still happened on top ups .

It most certainly does. Every day members who do want to buy a goodybag report this exact same problem. It's caused by their phone having outstanding background tasks to do, but no credit to do it with. So the moment they have credit, their phone will immediately go ahead and perform those outstanding tasks, which is likely to use a penny or two of that credit before they are able to buy the goodybag.

 

But why is it that members choose to add credit and then buy the goodybag from the credit instead of just buying the goodybag without adding credit first?

 

Is it because nobody told them there was a better way to do it? If so, everybody should be supporting https://labs.giffgaff.com/idea/16712751/encourage-users-to-buy-goodybags-without-adding-credit-first which asks giffgaff to place this simple tip on https://giffgaff.com/top-up :

 

(PNG Image, 423 × 175 pixels).png

 

The link in the hint takes them to https://giffgaff.com/buy/goodybag where they can buy the goodybag direct from their payment source, so there's no danger of the  phone using a penny or two of credit before being able to buy the goodybag.

 

@harrrrrry

Whilst your post may be factual for some cases, to extrapolate and conclude that it is true in all cases, is nothing more than arse gravy. 

 

My recent "one pence disappeared" happened while my sim wasn't in a phone.

 

How does that fit with your explanation?

 

It doesn't. 

 

Fewer graphics more facts. 

(and analysis therof).

 

I think @thunderdragon

Was by far the closest to actually explaining what happens. 

At least he hasn't explained away a real phenomenon with "oh it's just you being a thicky and not understanding apps, and how they update in the background.

(whilst ignoring that people report the penny glitch happening with data turned off, or even (as in my case) sim not even in phone.

 

It's not exactly the end of the world, but please. 

At least acknowledge that it happens! 

Order a sim from here & get a bonus £5 credit upon activation


Get a free giffgaff Sim
Message 8 of 73
by: harrrrrry
on: 18/01/2019 | 10:41 edited: 18/01/2019 | 10:43

@revjonty

 

At one time, I used to assume that the penny loss was caused by rounding errors, but it's unlikely:

 

  • that explanation presumes that giffgaff accounting is being done using floating point software
  • when restricted to addition (credits) and subtraction (debits), floating point software ought to be accurate to at least 6 significant digits, so when rounded to the nearest penny for display, it would not give a whole penny error unless the account involved transactions of a thousand pounds or more. It's unlikely that any member would have credited £1000+ to their account

    Wikipedia gives an example of the typical accuracy at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating-point_arithmetic#Accuracy_problems showing a calculation involving a transaction exceeding £1000 that can result in either £1280.245 or 1280.246 -- both of which, uniformally rounded to a penny, would be £1280.26. And, by the nature of floating point, if that first value was £128 rather than £1280, the pre-rounding error would be a hundredth rather than a tenth of a penny

In your case, I'm guessing that the phone might have been accessing data at the instant your credit or goodybag ran out. If you watch your dashboard while using data, you'll see that the balance does not fully update for something like 10 minutes after you stop using the data. So, its possible that the penny of data that seems to have disappeared while your phone was switched off might actually relate to data used before you switched it off.

 

OK, so that's three possible explanations: floating point errors (mathematically unlikely), data previously used at the moment you ran out of credit (theoretically possible, but not easy to prove without inside knowledge) and data used between adding the credit and buying the goodybag.

 

Regardless of the technical explanation, the solution is the same -- if members buy the goodybag direct from https://giffgaff.com/buy/goodybag instead of needlessly adding credit first, they will get the goodybag that they wanted straight off and not have to mess around contacting an agent to fix the balance first.

 

Get a free giffgaff Sim

Message 9 of 73
by: harrrrrry
on: 18/01/2019 | 10:54

@jaymailsays

 


Wouldn't help this member who bought 2×vouchers who lost a penny.

Agreed, but that's a much newer problem caused by the subsequent addition of a £25 goodybag to the range, despite the voucher company not selling giffgaff £25 vouchers.

 

There are three possible solutions to that:

 

  • giffgaff to persuade the voucher company to sell £25 giffgaff vouchers (presumably possible as they do it for o2)
  • educate members to buy a single £25 o2 voucher instead of two giffgaff vouchers
  • update the process at https://giffgaff.com/buy/goodybag to allow paying for a goodybag using plural vouchers.

Sadly only the second option is possible at the moment -- but if they do that, then https://giffgaff.com/buy/goodybag will work for them too.

 

Get a free giffgaff Sim

Message 10 of 73