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Unactivated SIMs expiry?

Started by: bertiebat
On: 12/04/2013 | 20:27
Replies: 40
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by: bertiebat
on: 12/04/2013 | 20:27

I posted an idea about ensuring that SIMs aren't needlessly expired but need some clarification from giffgaff as to how the current system works.

 

There is a mismatch between the official word that unactivated SIMs expire after 6 (sometimes 9) months and what actually happens (I've had SIM activated well over a year after I received them and as recently as March this year).

 

SIM given 07 Feb 2012 xxxxxxxx 08 Mar 2013

 

So I really don't think that SIMs do expire at the moment and also query why they should anyway?

 

I've always thought that the numbers aren't allocated until they are activated so what other reasons would there be for expiring unactivated SIMs?  

 

I suspect unused SIMs are already being needlessly thrown away because people think they expire after 6 months.     Those in the know can use the  SIM checker to see if it's still live and safe to give out but most will simply end up in the bin (not very green)

 

I'm thinking that this needs sorting out once and for all and would appreciate an official response as to whether SIMs really do expire now or will do in the future (it maybe that they used not to and therefore older SIMs can work but newer ones might not after 6 months).

 

If they now do expire then why? as would it not be much more environmentally friendly to have unexpiring unactivated SIMs or at least a mechanism (thanks cim) to keep SIMs active if they haven't yet been handed out.

 

So giffgaff in order to properly propose an idea on maintaining live unactivated SIMs and sort out the confiction of what the t&cs say and what actually happens, can I have answers to the following questions please. Smiley Happy

 

  • Are phone number already allocated to the unactivated SIMs (in which case this proposal is more complicated but not impossible)?
  • What mechanisms (if any) expire the unactivated SIMs and why?

Thanks

Bertie Smiley Happy 

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Message 1 of 41
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by: gurupandit
former giff-staffer

on: 14/05/2013 | 14:10

Thanks for your input khairul (and for supporting the idea Smiley Wink).  I saw your post about the really old SIM activation and I wonder whether ANYONE has actually found a SIM that has failed to activate at any time due to it expiring (I've not seen a confirmed case tbh).

 

The good news is that there should be a way of ensuring that the SIMs never expire (in real terms) from what guru posted but it does need to be planned for as they will need to recoup those numbers some time in the future.

 

I only keep a small stock of SIMs as I'm worried that at some point they will expire (numbers recouped) and recently lost out on a request for 4 SIMs because of that. Smiley Sad


Boys and Girls, Let me kick the confusion out of this thread.

 

To confirm, the SIMs never expire, unless they have already been activated, or they are really old pre 2G era SIMs (which if you find one, please post it to me for my collection Cat Wink).

 

What we are doing as part of MSISDN Reuse Project is to disassociate the MSISDN from preactivated SIMs older than a certain period. It wouldn't stop you to activate those SIMs, as a new MSISDN will get dynamically allotted to it. The only downside to this process is that it would take comparatively longer for a dynamic activation to go through. Our tests have shown that the dynamic activatiion takes on an average 2 hours.

 

So the moral of the story, we are trying to recycle the MSISDN to control the costs and to be Green. But please dont throw away older SIMs, as they won't expire.  (4G may eventually expire them, just as 3G expired 2G SIMs)

Message 26 of 41
by: pjr
on: 12/04/2013 | 20:39
>I've always thought that the numbers aren't allocated until they are activated so what other reasons would there be for expiring unactivated SIMs? <

Me and solid were discussing this recently and solid received confirmation from giffgaff that numbers are allocated to sims 'before' activation and suggested they then need to recover the numbers which is why they place a 6 month use by date on them. Make of that what you will Smiley Wink
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Message 2 of 41
by: oldyorkie
on: 12/04/2013 | 20:42
Hi Bertie ... I'd be interested to find out "the truth" about this ...

But one thing puzzles me?? ...
Shouldn't this have been posted before the idea?? Smiley Tongue

At the minute your idea is sitting on the boards but has no concrete evidence that would back up your reasons for its posting and / or the proposed changes?

Once clarification is provided, I'll happily support it though ... good to be green Smiley Happy
To Read is To Learn - go on - give it a try Smiley Wink
Teamwork is essential - it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at Smiley TongueGet a free giffgaff Simsignature 1.jpg
Message 3 of 41
by: philiplittle40
on: 12/04/2013 | 20:47
I still get activations from sims I received last June - so clearly hasn't been any systematic process.

If that's changing then clarity definitely needed - its a pain to check every sim in the checker but feel I have to given the uncertainty.
Message 4 of 41
by: bertiebat
on: 12/04/2013 | 20:59

@oldyorkie wrote:
Hi Bertie ... I'd be interested to find out "the truth" about this ...

But one thing puzzles me?? ...
Shouldn't this have been posted before the idea?? Smiley Tongue

At the minute your idea is sitting on the boards but has no concrete evidence that would back up your reasons for its posting and / or the proposed changes?

Once clarification is provided, I'll happily support it though ... good to be green Smiley Happy

Yes I agree that really I should have posted it in contribute first though my proposal is to always ensure that SIMs don't get needlessly expired whatever the current/future system is doing/going to do.

 

A backwards approach and yesterday I had a good reason for doing it (but for life of me now I can't think why I didn't post it here first).  Smiley Surprised

 

If as pjr and solid have suggested that numbers are pre-allocated on the SIMs then this is going to be trickier as now I understand why they would now expire if this blog also covered unactivated SIMs also. http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Blog/Recycling-mobile-numbers-giffgaff/ba-p/8211666

 

However it only points to activated SIMs.

 

Recycling old mobile phone numbers will affect numbers that we consider inactive, so this will only impact you if you have a phone with an activated giffgaff SIM that hasn’t been used in six months.

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Message 5 of 41
by: jokeyboi77
on: 12/04/2013 | 21:26
I saw a post from khairul i'm sure it was that had a sim activation after 18 months. Smiley Surprised So what actually happens after the 6 months does giffgaff reclaim the number manually or is it automated? And if it's automated then why are so many sims being activated after the 6 month period? So i'm with you on this one Bertie it would be nice to have this cleared up to prevent wasteage as you point out.
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Message 6 of 41
by: pjr
on: 12/04/2013 | 21:28
@ bertie

I can't remember who solid contacted but I believe it was an educator who then looked into it further before replying. Maybe solid will see this thread and pop in Smiley Wink
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Message 7 of 41
by: bertiebat
on: 12/04/2013 | 22:05

@pjr wrote:
@ bertie

I can't remember who solid contacted but I believe it was an educator who then looked into it further before replying. Maybe solid will see this thread and pop in Smiley Wink

Thanks pjr and I will send him a PM as he already commented on the idea saying he had received that information (but he wasn't convinced it was right).

 

It seems a very sensible idea to NOT allocate numbers to the SIMs so as not to waste them by expiring them and I always thought they were allocated by the activation process but this of course need absolute clarification.

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Message 8 of 41
by: pjr
on: 12/04/2013 | 22:07
>It seems a very sensible idea to NOT allocate numbers to the SIMs so as not to waste them by expiring them and I always thought they were allocated by the activation process but this of course need absolute clarification.<

Yep, I agree and that's the way I always thought it worked. Definitely needs clarifying once and for all.
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Message 9 of 41
by: jokeyboi77
on: 12/04/2013 | 22:16
Yes i think we all thought the same that the number wasn't allocated to the sim until the sim was activated. And that'll be why they're sending out the message just now about reclaiming numbers because they'll be running low on numbers if they're already attached to unactivated sims lol. Smiley Tongue

So maybe it would make better sense to reclaim all the numbers from unactivated sims which are older than 6 months first before reclaiming numbers from sims which haven't been used for 6 months, but that's a different issue all together lol.
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Message 10 of 41