Knowledge Base

Let's just STAY in the EU?

Started by: ytokyo
On: 28/11/2018 | 16:49
Replies: 494

by: sarahaxon
on: 06/12/2018 | 18:21
There is no will of the people. It changes all the time. It is shifting, unpredictable and individual. Whenever anyone claims they represent it, they are behaving like a tyrant, because they treat as monolithic what is in fact varied and unpredictable.

Not my words but I agree wholeheartedly.
Message 391 of 495
by: tooltrader
on: 06/12/2018 | 18:22
Wasnt approx good enough acetech.
Message 392 of 495
by: acetech
on: 06/12/2018 | 18:25
Clear but invalid in the way you made it @andyslc, as the example given didn't give a 'don't like it' re-vote before the result was enacted. That would be a different kind of 'democracy' to what has ever been seen in this country so no actual example can be made.

Though I agree, Mays 'deal' is pants, and will only weaken our position further leaving a desperation leave at the end or a backdoor remain, no wonder quite a few remainers say they like/accept it.....
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Message 393 of 495
by: majorincident
on: 06/12/2018 | 18:30

@k89bpa wrote:

But there will be new old people @majorincident

Those old people will be today's youngsters. Smiley LOL

The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars but in ourselves.
Message 394 of 495
by: k89bpa
on: 06/12/2018 | 18:41
@acetech I didn't say I accept it and like I said the Daily Mail are in favour so it's probably gonna end up with the support of more leave voters than remain voters.

I just don't think it's the worst idea because it's hilarious the uproar it is and will create as it all plays out.

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Message 395 of 495
by: andyslc
on: 06/12/2018 | 19:12

@acetech But equally the referendum was not legally binding whereas the election result is. If we also follow the thinking that people should just shut up and get on with Brexit then by equal measure newspapers like the express and Mail shouldn’t have been moaning about the EU for decades. Swings and roundabouts.


Re the deal we certainly agree on all but perhaps the last bit. I would suggest that any one wishing to remain under the terms of the deal needs their head examined because it leaves us with no say in anything the EU decides to do in terms of setting tariffs, making new laws etc. Rather than “no wonder” it should be “why on beyond me”.

Veni vidi dormivi
Message 396 of 495
by: andyslc
on: 06/12/2018 | 19:15

@k89bpa I think the likes of The Mail are frightful a loss for May could result in a general election and then possibly a government other than Conservative. That could be tricky for them if they were seen to have inadvertently brought about the governments demise.

Veni vidi dormivi
Message 397 of 495
by: acetech
on: 06/12/2018 | 19:18
I wasn't referring to you directly @k89bpa, but I have seen some comments from remainers supporting the deal as 'the best we can get', and backing TM in pushing it through.

I guess as at least in the near future it still tracks the EU to some degree, and if a no deal or extremely bad deal is to be rejected by the UK which it more than likely will, the period is likely to be extended, possibly indefinitely or to (backdoor) remain.

Whereas for Mays deal to not go through could possibly lead to a no/limited deal brexit, another reason to be accepted by some remainers as even if they don't like it, they like the opposite (no or extremely limited deal), even less.
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Message 398 of 495
by: acetech
on: 06/12/2018 | 19:20 edited: 06/12/2018 | 19:24

@andyslc, or is it a 'teach them leavers a lesson' clause which they're hoping will show the light into remaining after all....


Oh, and I definitely agree regarding media bias, or even celebrity politics, essentially using any position to push an agenda and think it should be banned. Though I must admit I never go out of my way to read the express or mail.

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Message 399 of 495
by: majorincident
on: 06/12/2018 | 19:42

@acetech, what is it that you don't understand about democracy?  If there is to be another referendum, it will be on the terms of the EU withdrawal agreement.  If we end up not leaving, it will be because of the incompetence of this government and the ignorance of an electorate who didn't know what it was voting for when it entered the polling booth. 


The deal returns sovereignty to the UK, but it turns out this is not the 'will of the people' afterall.

The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars but in ourselves.
Message 400 of 495