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Let's just STAY in the EU?

Started by: ytokyo
On: 28/11/2018 | 16:49
Replies: 494
Reply

by: sarahaxon
on: 08/12/2018 | 11:22
@majorincident @andath
Norway plus is really being a non voting member of the EU.
The Norway deal came about because Norway had a vote about whether they wanted to be in the EU. Like us, a narrow margin said no. Being pragmatic Scandinavians, they looked at the close split and concluded that the country as a whole didn't agree, so decided way forward was a half way house, out but with very close ties.

If our government had had any sense they would have interpreted our vote in a similar way, and attempted to unite the country around a compromise. But they didn't. Mrs May's government gave in to the hard liners of the ERG who wanted no compromise - 'leave means leave' etc with their vision of 'Singapore on Thames, irrespective of the impossibilities of realising this (geography, existing frameworks etc.) This was helped on by May's particular personal obsession with ending free movement.

So now reality has finally hit they're in trouble and are floundering for a solution. It's a bit late to start talking 'Norway'. At the very least we would need a lot more time to negotiate - even if EFTA would have us. The EFTA nations have looked on at how we've behaved and are pretty damning.

Good piece on Channel 4 news
https://www.channel4.com/news/what-does-a-norway-plus-brexit-plan-mean-we-went-to-oslo-to-find-out
Message 421 of 495
by: majorincident
on: 08/12/2018 | 11:36

Prime Minister of Norway says: Why should you leave the EU if you’re accepting a Norway deal?

Precisely.  Amber Rudd and the others talking this up are raving.

The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars but in ourselves.
Message 422 of 495
by: lordvincent
on: 08/12/2018 | 16:27

@sarahaxon wrote:


Good piece on Channel 4 news
https://www.channel4.com/news/what-does-a-norway-plus-brexit-plan-mean-we-went-to-oslo-to-find-out

I like Norwegian MP Heidi Lunde's comment about 'Norway Plus' and the UK joining them in EFTA:

 

"Kind of like inviting an abusive partner to our Christmas party who spikes all the drinks"

 

"I think you would mess it all up for us the way you have messed it all up for yourselves"

 

She has a point. I wouldn't want 'us' to join my club either..

Message 423 of 495
by: sarahaxon
on: 08/12/2018 | 18:05
@majorincident
I do take it as a positive that a government minister has raised the possibility of looking at alternatives. It might be a bit late, and we might not agree with her ideas, but at this point any moves to look at sensible alternatives should be encouraged.
Message 424 of 495
by: jedsam56
on: 08/12/2018 | 18:22

Three of the biggest donors to the Brexit campaign have decided it would be better if we remained in the EU after all!!Smiley LOL

 

Brexit donors: Theresa May's deal is worse than staying in the EU - Sky News
https://apple.news/AaXlkVQxHSBi4cXgPNpQxhQ

Message 425 of 495
by: silemairin
on: 08/12/2018 | 18:33
@ ytokyo
So now I am a fool. left school many years ago we had a saying sticks and stones may break my bones names will never hurt me .
Must be wonderful to be so clever you can call me a fool before we have even left.

Ask yourself a question , With the right wing taking control riots in France if this was a club would you really want to pay a hefty fee to be a member ?, if so then just to have admit glad I'm the fool .
Message 426 of 495
by: majorincident
on: 08/12/2018 | 18:48

@sarahaxon: there certainly has to be a better way, but Norway plus is not it:

 

  • Norway is not a member of the EU but is in the European Economic Area, meaning it is part of the single market;
  • in return, it contributes to the EU budget, and has to follow most EU rules and laws, including the freedom of movement of goods, services, capital and people.

and there would still be the tricky Northern Ireland question.

The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars but in ourselves.
Message 427 of 495
by: sarahaxon
on: 08/12/2018 | 19:15
@majorincident
Yes, I know.
I'm not saying we should wholeheartedly embrace Norway plus as a solution that will unite the nation.

I'm just pointing out that at this stage it's better to encourage moves in the right direction, rather than shoot them down out of hand. If things are starting to move your way, don't slam the brakes on.
Message 428 of 495
by: silemairin
on: 08/12/2018 | 22:03
@sarahaxon who say's we have to accept any of there rules we voted to leave , come March forget paying pensions for the likes of Clegg Mandleson Kinnock etc , we had nothing after a blooming war and recovered anything rather than an EU army do young men really want to be called up to serve in an EU army because thats the second stage of the treaties n the calling up is supposition on my part but how else are they going to form one ,as I have asked before with all the unrest would you want to stay a member,of a club in the turmoil thats going on riots right wing .
I finish with we had a democratic vote I respect we all have different views but remain lost with all due respect get over it we won you lost,get over it .
Message 429 of 495
by: sarahaxon
on: 09/12/2018 | 01:01
@silemairin
Couple of things:

Would you deny people the pensions they have earned while working? Nick Clegg was an MEP for 5 years. Mandelson and Neil Kinnock both worked for the European commission. Personally I feel pretty sick that Nigel Farage will get a hefty pension from his years as an MEP, but I accept that he is contractually entitled to it.

I'm not sure what your fears of conscription into a European army are based on. It's been a long time since any European country had conscription. We abolished national service in 1960. It's not coming back any time soon. Modern armies need professionals, not unwillingly conscripted amateurs.

Yes there is some support with Europe for the idea of a European army, as an extension of the security co-operation between EU countries. However the EU does not have the power to impose this on member states.

Finally thanks for saying you respect that other people hold different views. Your last sentence rather undermined this sentiment.
Message 430 of 495