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Things the EU have done for the UK

Started by: snenklehen
On: 07/12/2018 | 07:20
Replies: 193
Reply

by: k89bpa
on: 07/12/2018 | 15:13
@andishdi I'd have taken a grant myself if one was available, I have zero problem with grants being given to poorer areas in order to help them and make them more attractive to business.

The bigger economies grow, the more they contribute and the more money is available for other poorer areas including those in our own country as already pointed out.

I know people here and abroad who have jobs in part due to these grants and loans helping to entice business, they'll never be a bad thing in my eyes. I've seen EU money used to improve living standards here and abroad too, again, not a bad thing at all.

Capitalism is the issue here, that and the high cost of doing business in the UK, not EU support.
Message 61 of 194
by: kenralph
on: 07/12/2018 | 15:24

@snenklehen wrote:

An interesting list doing the rounds of a small amount of benevolent acts the EU has done for to the UK.  Makes you think and reevaluate (unless you're too entrenched) 

 

 

 

 

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

 

Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.


Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.


Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.


British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.


Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.


Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.


M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.


Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.


Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.


Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.


Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.


Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.


ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs


Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.


JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.


UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.


Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.


Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.


The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.


Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.


39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU


The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria.

His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK.

 

The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

 

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.

OUT OF EUROPE we need to be out of it

Cadbury, sold with the government blessing after being promised it would keep the recipe and keep location

 

Jaguar Landrover one a proud British firm now owned by Tata, India, not in the EU.

 

Peugeot...sounds a bit foreign to me..im sure when it opened in the UK the country it came from had a hissey fit.

 

Ajax fighting vehicles well Spain yes I understand your annoyance but Britain doesn't have Steel any more, Some government...let me think... Oh yes the Conservatives, under Mrs Thatcher sold it off to Cory's and thence to India

 

Dyson, he decided to leave the UK...blame him it's not just about the EU you know..

 

Boots paid for exclusively by German Conglomerate KKR via Pessina 

 

Really I can't be bothered any more...

Message 62 of 194
by: snenklehen
on: 07/12/2018 | 15:30

@andyslc wrote:

I’m not going to take these claims down one by one but it could be done if needed.

 

1) Cadbury - owned by an American company (you know those people we want to do more trade with) who shafted our workers moving production to Poland. Just like the financial crash, it was the Americans not the EU responsible for this one.

 

2) Ford Transit - the one out of the list that is pretty close. What it doesn’t mention is that the EU had already given money to help Ford keep production in the U.K. but Ford didn’t make it work. What they got to move to Turkey was a low rate loan, not a grant but only because the business wasn’t making it work in the U.K.

 

3) Jaguar Land Rover - owned by an Indian company, Tata. Whilst Slovakia got funding for building the site JLR didn’t get any money from the EU. Tata could have applied for a grant in the EU but cheaper labour hence lower production costs = more profits.

 

4) New Ajax vehicle’s - 100 full units in Spain and then hulls will be built in Spain and finished in the U.K. The production however is entirely down to the British governments contracting and procurement procedure. Thank the Tories for that one not the EU.

 

Cant find anything for Dyson other than an anecdotal list which was cut and paste into the op.

 

At least put some facts behind the claims if you can. In most of the cases it has either been loans or the grants have been into regional development funds to develop poorer areas of the EU. Ultimately it is usually a cost decision of the company because labour is cheaper and new infrastructure is available.  

 

It also worth noting that we have areas areas that receive regional development funds and U.K. companies could have applied for money from them had they been interested in U.K. workers. Seeing as many of our companies are ultimately foreign owned then that ain’t going to happen and is stuff all to do with the EU. The bottom line is it’s all about the companies’ bottom lines..,and a Conservative government with little interest in keeping businesses British, and more interested in raking in money for their rich friends, wherever they may reside..and the banks.

 

Im disappointed in the OP for such a poor cut and paste job. I expected better,

Whoa now sunshine, what you're basically saying is yes they got EU tax payer funding but it was dressed up as something else, and you acuse me of twisitng it in your later post?  wow!

 

Cadbury got EU funding so went to Poland as wages are cheaper and they were had a grant for the factory.  Do I blame the American owners, yes, do I blame the EU, damn straight!   Their role (with grants) should be to get companies to move to EU member states, not shuffle them around to attempt to balance their wearlth. 


If the grant was to get them to Poland from America, then fine.

 

It's the same with all the other examples you've tried to paint over.  The crux is, tax payers money is used to make us poorer.

 

I know there is a massive remain echo chamber on here, but when you look at the facts and the kind of person who generally echos it, it doesn't half tell you a lot.

 

It was said earlier that people are scared to admit they were wrong and are doubling down, sadly not everyone who voted remain has the balls to admit they made a mistake.  I am glad I have.

Guilty of thought crimes - If there is hope, it lies in the proles.
Message 63 of 194
by: snenklehen
on: 07/12/2018 | 15:32

@kenralph wrote:

@snenklehen wrote:

An interesting list doing the rounds of a small amount of benevolent acts the EU has done for to the UK.  Makes you think and reevaluate (unless you're too entrenched) 

 

 

 

 

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

 

Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.


Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.


Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.


British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.


Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.


Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.


M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.


Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.


Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.


Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.


Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.


Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.


ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs


Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.


JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.


UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.


Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.


Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.


The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.


Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.


39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU


The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria.

His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK.

 

The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

 

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.

OUT OF EUROPE we need to be out of it

Cadbury, sold with the government blessing after being promised it would keep the recipe and keep location

 

Jaguar Landrover one a proud British firm now owned by Tata, India, not in the EU.

 

Peugeot...sounds a bit foreign to me..im sure when it opened in the UK the country it came from had a hissey fit.

 

Ajax fighting vehicles well Spain yes I understand your annoyance but Britain doesn't have Steel any more, Some government...let me think... Oh yes the Conservatives, under Mrs Thatcher sold it off to Cory's and thence to India

 

Dyson, he decided to leave the UK...blame him it's not just about the EU you know..

 

Boots paid for exclusively by German Conglomerate KKR via Pessina 

 

Really I can't be bothered any more...

and all private companies tempted from one EU member state to another.

 

I am sure everyone struggling on the dole in those areas feel better that you can justify it to yourself.  Happy Christmas kids.

Guilty of thought crimes - If there is hope, it lies in the proles.
Message 64 of 194
by: snenklehen
on: 07/12/2018 | 15:34

@k89bpa wrote:

@snenklehen I'm not ignoring your comment but @andyslc has given such a good response that I don't actually have anything to add to his words. He said it all and more. 

His response was basically nonsense, so if that was what you were going for, well have a kudos

Guilty of thought crimes - If there is hope, it lies in the proles.
Message 65 of 194
by: andyslc
on: 07/12/2018 | 16:00

Re Poland and Cadbury if you can find a reputable link to some facts then please feel free to post it. The only links I could find were to the cut and paste tosh you posted in the op, What you may find is that carpraft moved some production to allow for improvements at the Cadbury plant and that they invested £75m in the U.K. plant. Krafts position all along has been that is has been dedicated to the U.K. plant all along.

 

If however you can’t find proof please feel free to carry on in blissful ignorance.

 

As for any further interaction from me on this (I’m replyin* out of politeness here), I refer the honourable member to the answer I gave some moments ago.

Veni vidi dormivi
Message 66 of 194
by: k89bpa
on: 07/12/2018 | 16:01 edited: 07/12/2018 | 16:03

@snenklehen his response was nonsense in your opinion, which you are more than entitled to.

 

His response is also factually accurate and so that's what I'm gonna go with. I'll take facts over opinion every day of the week and it's not that I'm saying you didn't present valid facts, you did, but you are also twisting them dramatically as evidenced by the lack of reference to the development fund and how the UK has also benefited from it. 

 

It's been said many times that the majority of the issues we face are domestic ones which have little or nothing to do with the UK and numerous posters have been at pains to point this out, and then there are those who simply ignore this and rant about it all being down to the EU.

 

This is just another of those cases I'm afraid. And this is why I say people are ignorant regarding what they actually voted on, however they voted. 

 

You challenged people to post evidence of the EU helping the UK, it's businesses, it's citizens, but posters have already done that, many, many times, over the course of the last few years, there are literally hundreds of cumulative stories of this, with evidence, (actual evidence like budgets and stuff), and they've all been ignored by yourself and people of your ilk, so what's the point? You talk of echo chambers...both sides are as bad as each other at the very least.

 

Seriously you're all so **bleep**ing tribal about your bull**bleep** it's like watching the devout atheist and the devout follower of religion go backwards and forwards, literally, neither remotely interested in discussion, just pushing their view. 

 

I've never cared which side won, or ultimately wins, it's **bleep**ing absurd there even are sides in the first place and shows how inept the British actually are, but the blatant lack of honesty makes me sick. 

 

I say again, your problem here is with capitalism, not the EU, because it is capitalism which drove and was responsible for all the things you listed. 

Message 67 of 194
Highlighted
by: andyslc
on: 07/12/2018 | 16:03

@andishdi wrote:

@andyslc - You’re both choosing to ignore or use terminology to hide the fact that no matter which way you spin it the EU gave UK taxpayer money to businesses if it was to move those factories out of the UK… It doesn’t matter if it was a “grant” an “RDF” the result was the same… Our money used in such a way it made this country poorer… Inexcusable on any level.

 

The TATA thing is another example… I said that they ignored their own rules to suit them – we can’t continue to be part of that even if in this instance it had no impact on the UK.

 

@k89bpa - I have no problem with moving your business out of the UK, it’s yours and you’re entitled to do with it as you please but you’re comparing the UK having higher costs to our money being used to move factories to the EU by the EU… Two different things.

 

Capitalism is fine and you’re entitled to care more about yourself than your fellow man and not be judged for it.

I refer the honourable member to the answer I gave in post 59. 

Veni vidi dormivi
Message 68 of 194
by: standardbearer
on: 07/12/2018 | 17:00
@k89bpa
Your post 61 reminds me that your a modern china communist.
Playing the capitalist system. .
They of course , attempting to take over the world via capitalist system. Talk about ideal values out of the door.
Never known one true communist country Cuba accepted as far as my knowledge will stretch.
Certainly not the soviet union where some are more equal than others.

@snenklehen
Nice post 68. Very interesting.
Fortune Favours The Brave S.P.Q.R
Message 69 of 194
by: k89bpa
on: 07/12/2018 | 17:16
@standardbearer, nope I'm a full supporter of true Commmunism, the whole shebang, without exception, but when in Rome...

I actually passed the savings I made by relocating along to my customers rather than pocketing the cash. I was able to slash some of their monthly fees by as much as 65%.

They felt good. I felt good. It was a win, win situation.
Message 70 of 194