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What do you think stay or leave the eu

Started by: hayman3663
On: 20/01/2019 | 19:17
Replies: 58
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by: farnis
on: 20/01/2019 | 22:58

@k89bpa

 

On your theory, 46m/46m people had the chance to vote. Thats right, 100%. So those who didn't vote wouldn't have all voted to stay. Its likely the 52:48 ratio of leave/remain would have been the outcome regardless.

Message 11 of 59
by: sarahaxon
on: 20/01/2019 | 23:33

@farnis

 

That's an interesting point. The academics at Kings College London had a go at answering it, using pre and post referendum survey data. There's a long article here:

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/what-if-everyone-had-voted-in-the-eu-referendum/

 

TLSmiley Very HappyR - What it says is that if everybody had voted there wouldn't have been a huge difference, but there would have been slightly more people voting for remain. Enough to tilt the balance of the outcome to 'Remain' by a very small margin.

 

What is clear to me is that however you look at it opinions across the country were and are almost equally divided. This was exacerbated by the fact that both campaigns were dreadful in their different ways. The remain campaign because it concentrated on the negatives, the leave campaign because it never defined what leaving actually meant - which is the main reason we are in the pickle we are in now. 

 

So all the more reason to find a rational and reasoned solution and a lessening of partisan fury. 

 

I'm usually no fan of delays and kicking things into the long grass, but on this occasion I do think we need to take the heat out of this debate and look for ways of bringing people togther and defining  what can work for all of us.

 

Voting_breakdown.JPG 

 

Message 12 of 59
by: k89bpa
on: 20/01/2019 | 23:41

@farnis wrote:

@k89bpa

 

So those who didn't vote wouldn't have all voted to stay. Its likely the 52:48 ratio of leave/remain would have been the outcome regardless.

Nonsense @farnis

 

All we know for certain about those who didn't vote was literally that they did not endorse the proposed change. We know this because they literally did not vote.

 

Perhaps they wanted to leave, perhaps they wanted to stay, perhaps they wanted something else, perhaps they simply didn't care.

 

Perhaps. Perhaps. Perhaps. 

 

Attempts by both sides to claim to know how they would have voted are stupid and plain wrong, all we know is a change was prosposed, 17/46m said "Cool dude!", 16/46m said, "Aw hell no!", 13m said ".....".

 

That's not a theory. That is fact. 

 

17/46m endorsed the proposed change. That is fact.

29/46m did not endorse the proposed change. That is a fact. 

 

Petty tribalism, (again, both sides), does not change any of those facts. They are a matter of public record and they are undisputed. By simply ignoring them or by attempting to discredit me or my reputation in response to me quoting them people are demonstrating how utterly pathetic they are and how shallow their proclamations are, not to mention how little respect they have for themselves, let alone anyone else. 

 

People should be more honest instead of trying to spin and deflect. 

 

A change was proposed.

 

The majority of those asked to support and endorse the proposed change by voting in favour of it did not do so. Fact.

 

There is no subtext regarding the referendum or our relationship with the European Union, the subtext is actually about democracy in the United Kingdom and the lack of honest in our population as well as the lack of respect in our population. 

 

Feel free to jump on the bandwagon of making claims about me in order to attempt to discredit me and what I say if you feel that's something you want to do, but remember, I'm on record multiple times as saying that I was "hard Brexit" as this is the pathway which will cause the most harm and suffering to the people of this country. 

 

That is the truth. That is what I want to happen with all my heart. I've taken the necessary steps to protect myself from the majority of it, in fact, if it happens and goes as expected, I will do very nicely out of it. I only voted "remain" because it was obviously in the national interest and because I could not, in good conscience, deliberately inflict harm onto others. 

 

So all those people saying that I'm trying to twist and spin for the "remain" cause are doing nothing by jumping on that bandwagon other than making themselves look like "prized pillocks" as my grandfather would say. 

 

I'm not "campaigning" either way, people should make up their own minds, I don't wanna sway people one way or another. I just want people to start being **bleep**ing honest. 

 

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Message 13 of 59
by: acetech
on: 20/01/2019 | 23:46

@k89bpa wrote:

@farnis wrote:

@k89bpa

 

So those who didn't vote wouldn't have all voted to stay. Its likely the 52:48 ratio of leave/remain would have been the outcome regardless.

Nonsense @farnis

 

All we know for certain about those who didn't vote was literally that they did not endorse the proposed change. We know this because they literally did not vote.

 

Perhaps they wanted to leave, perhaps they wanted to stay, perhaps they wanted something else, perhaps they simply didn't care.

 

Perhaps. Perhaps. Perhaps. 

 

Attempts by both sides to claim to know how they would have voted are stupid and plain wrong, all we know is a change was prosposed, 17/46m said "Cool dude!", 16/46m said, "Aw hell no!", 13m said ".....".

 

That's not a theory. That is fact. 

 

17/46m endorsed the proposed change. That is fact.

29/46m did not endorse the proposed change. That is a fact. 

 

Petty tribalism, (again, both sides), does not change any of those facts. They are a matter of public record and they are undisputed. By simply ignoring them or by attempting to discredit me or my reputation in response to me quoting them people are demonstrating how utterly pathetic they are and how shallow their proclamations are, not to mention how little respect they have for themselves, let alone anyone else. 

 

People should be more honest instead of trying to spin and deflect. 

 

A change was proposed.

 

The majority of those asked to support and endorse the proposed change by voting in favour of it did not do so. Fact.

 

There is no subtext regarding the referendum or our relationship with the European Union, the subtext is actually about democracy in the United Kingdom and the lack of honest in our population as well as the lack of respect in our population. 

 

Feel free to jump on the bandwagon of making claims about me in order to attempt to discredit me and what I say if you feel that's something you want to do, but remember, I'm on record multiple times as saying that I was "hard Brexit" as this is the pathway which will cause the most harm and suffering to the people of this country. 

 

That is the truth. That is what I want to happen with all my heart. I've taken the necessary steps to protect myself from the majority of it, in fact, if it happens and goes as expected, I will do very nicely out of it. I only voted "remain" because it was obviously in the national interest and because I could not, in good conscience, deliberately inflict harm onto others. 

 

So all those people saying that I'm trying to twist and spin for the "remain" cause are doing nothing by jumping on that bandwagon other than making themselves look like "prized pillocks" as my grandfather would say. 

 

I'm not "campaigning" either way, people should make up their own minds, I don't wanna sway people one way or another. I just want people to start being **bleep**ing honest. 

 

Smiley Very Happy

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Message 14 of 59
by: mariomariott
on: 21/01/2019 | 00:02

@k89bpa There is a glaring flaw in your argument. We were not asked to endorse a proposed change we were asked if we wished to remain or to leave.

Government proposed no changes and, if anything,  there were clear warnings that government believed it would be in our interest to stay within the EU.

 

Message 15 of 59
by: k89bpa
on: 21/01/2019 | 00:07

@mariomariott wrote:

@k89bpa There is a glaring flaw in your argument. We were not asked to endorse a proposed change we were asked if we wished to remain or to leave.

Government proposed no changes and, if anything,  there were clear warnings that government believed it would be in our interest to stay within the EU.

https://youtu.be/PGNiXGX2nLU

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Message 16 of 59
by: shabazmoqsud
on: 21/01/2019 | 00:08

Stay a full member of EU.  Article 50 needs to be revoked.

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Message 17 of 59
by: farnis
on: 21/01/2019 | 00:12

@k89bpa

 

Im now not sure what you are on about. The official outcome was leave. So whatever theories you have the outcome was still leave. 

Message 18 of 59
Highlighted
by: k89bpa
on: 21/01/2019 | 00:27
Facts @farnis, I'm talking facts.

There's little point in continuing a discussion when you insist on referring to fact as "theory".
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Message 19 of 59
by: farnis
on: 21/01/2019 | 00:33

@k89bpa wrote:

Facts @farnis, I'm talking facts.

There's little point in continuing a discussion when you insist on referring to fact as "theory".

I see it differently. 

 

There's little point in continuing a discussion when you insist on referring to theory as "fact".

 

Message 20 of 59