What do you think stay or leave the eu

[#1]

@farnis wrote:

I see it differently.

There's little point in continuing a discussion when you insist on referring to theory as "fact".

Ah, so...

It's only a "theory" that 17/46m endorsed the proposed change.

It's only a "theory" that 16/46m rejected it.

It's only a "theory" that 13/46m said nothing.

Thanks for setting me straight on that one. 

[#2]

Using your own logic @k89bpa only 16/46 million voted to remain and 30/46 million didn't.

[#3]

@mariomariott wrote:

Using your own logic @k89bpa only 16/46 million voted to remain and 30/46 million didn't.

It's a fair point you make @mariomariott, you're totally, 100% correct about that.

Like I've consistently pointed out though Mario, they can be ignored completely, as can the 13/46m who said nothing because only one figure counts in a referendum...

The percentage of those asked who endorse the proposed change. 

It is that figure which dictates what does and does not happen on a truly democratic and representative referendum. It doesn't matter what the subject matter is, it doesn't matter who "wins" or "loses", that has nothing to do with true, representative democracy, what matters is...

Do the majority of those asked endorse the proposed change?

And please don't come back with something along the lines of "but that wasn't the question", because everybody knows that it was.

Farage and his buddies wanted to make a change in our relationship with the European Union, they succeeded in creating enough of a stink that the question was put to the British electorate, who were asked to endorse the change which he and those of his ilk were proposing. 

If you or anybody else wishes to continue lying and deflecting from that with more of the endless spin and bull**bleep** there's no point in conversing with me on the topic because I'm done tolerating such blatant dishonesty.

That's not a slight against anyone, it because I would like to finally see an honest and open conversation about not just this mess but about the state of our political system in general and I'm not at all interested in discussing spin and bull**bleep** any further.

With what I've witnessed in the political sphere since I became interested and engaged in politics several decades ago my patience for spin of any kind has expired, it did so a long, long time ago. 

We need to be able to have an honest conversation, and those buying into and feeding the spin, (bull**bleep** propaganda), make such a thing impossible so they can do their thing, without me, and I shall wait for people who have honesty and integrity to come out of hiding and then we can actually have a proper conversation.

I'm not optimistic that this will happen any time soon, but either way, I'm not entertaining, tolerating or engaging in discussion regarding spin and bull**bleep** propaganda any more.

After decades of it relentlessly being pushed, enough is enough. 

[#4]

Stay and try altering it from inside.

[#5]

Not stay

[#6]

@finlaym28 wrote:

Stay and try altering it from inside.

You have to be joking don't you @finlaym28?

There is absolutely no chance of the EU taking any notice of our concerns. That is exactly why we wish to leave.

You can see by the so-called "deal" that they have offered that they care nothing about Britain, except the amount of money they can extort from us

[#7]

As there will be uproar if we stay we should leave and get on with it and take advantage that the rest of the EU are scared of a no deal

[#8]

I voted stay, if we had to vote again I would still vote stay. It's been an expensive farce not helped by the constant scaremongering of the media and politicians and the financial sector doing it's best to ruin us for their own selfish greed.

[#9]

@gvmhb wrote:

There is absolutely no chance of the EU taking any notice of our concerns. That is exactly why we wish to leave.

Again, what have they done to cause you any harm which is not directly attributable to yourself or your own government?

And please do not use words like "our" and "we" when talking about this without qualifying it, there is no "us", "our" and "we" in this on a local, regional or national level.

What you have is two very distinct tribes, each screaming slogans and soundbites at each other whilst waving their genitals around liberally, only taking a break from that to squabble like primary school children with the sub groups within their own tribes.

And then you have the rest of us who want zero association with either of those two tribes and their sub groups because we are ashamed of our association with them, we are embarrassed by them, we are disgusted by them and what they stand for as well as the image they portray. 

And no, we don't think we are better than those in the tribes, we known it, because they are behaving like unevolved humanoids from the Paleolithic era whilst the rest of us are trying to use the skills which we have acquired as a species since those times because, well, evolution and because it's the ratonal, sensible and reasonable thing to do. 

[#10]

@pete2009 wrote:

100% leave.

The problem is that everything has been sold to foreign investors. There's virtually nothing left.

I had no idea that China and India were in the EU.