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What do you think stay or leave the eu

Started by: hayman3663
On: 20/01/2019 | 19:17
Replies: 58
Reply

by: k89bpa
on: 21/01/2019 | 16:25 edited: 21/01/2019 | 16:28

@kate1028 wrote:

I can't understand this ridiculous obsession by some Remainers that they must include people who didn't vote, in the statistics as 'not voting to leave'. 

Because @kate1028, we are governed by consent, or at least we are supposed to be.

 

Arguing that those who didn't vote should be ignored is essentially the same as arguing that any body who didn't say no or who didn't struggle when someone had sex with them against their will weren't raped and that's absolutely ridiculous because consent is affirmative. It needs to be explicitly given.

 

And it wasn't.

 

17/46m gave their consent.

29/46m did not. 

 

It gets muddied in elections because of the system involved and the fact that we are forced to accept less by the system, but in a referendum it is clear, and in the two referenda we have had consent was not obtained and there is no argument against that. 

 

Some wanted to leave the EU, the electorate were asked to consent to this happening. The majority did not give their consent. End of story.

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Message 41 of 59
by: kate1028
on: 21/01/2019 | 17:01

@k89bpa - comparing the Referendum with rape is ludicrous, and I think your argument is rubbish as well.   You may as well say that the Tories should never have got in at the General Election (even with help), because all those who didn’t vote at all, didn’t give their consent for the Tories to be in power.

 

On your basis, all Elections or Referenda are rubbish, and I stand by what I said - if you don’t vote, you DON’T COUNT.   Be honest, you just didn’t like the result - and at the time neither did I, but after 2.5 years of listening to whingeing remainers, I’ve changed sides.

Message 42 of 59
by: k89bpa
on: 21/01/2019 | 17:40

Oh do grow up @kate1028.

You asked a question, I answered it. End of story.

If you wanna have a conversation about consent and why it is important that the majority of those asked consent to the proposed change becoming actual change, great, lets do that.

I'm not engaging with the kind of bull**bleep** you have just spewed forth in your initial response though. That's childish and immature and seeking to distract and deflect from the actual issue into some personal nonsense.

As for your statement about those not speaking up not counting, do you apply that to all consent centric issues or just the ones which suit your particular agenda?

 

See, two can play that game. 

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Message 43 of 59
by: acetech
on: 21/01/2019 | 18:17

@k89bpa wrote:

Oh do grow up @kate1028.

You asked a question, I answered it. End of story.

If you wanna have a conversation about consent and why it is important that the majority of those asked consent to the proposed change becoming actual change, great, lets do that.

I'm not engaging with the kind of bull**bleep** you have just spewed forth in your initial response though. That's childish and immature and seeking to distract and deflect from the actual issue into some personal nonsense.

As for your statement about those not speaking up not counting, do you apply that to all consent centric issues or just the ones which suit your particular agenda?

 

See, two can play that game. 

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Message 44 of 59
by: k89bpa
on: 21/01/2019 | 19:16
Yeah @acetech, it's hilarious that consent is being totally ignored by everyone.

And you wonder why I call people ignorant, lol
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Message 45 of 59
by: acetech
on: 21/01/2019 | 19:26 edited: 21/01/2019 | 19:29

@k89bpa wrote:

Yeah @acetech, it's hilarious that consent is being totally ignored by everyone.

And you wonder why I call people ignorant, lol

And how many consented to staying, was it less? Oh yes, it was, wasn't it....

 

The only person spinning is you applying your ideals to how you think it should be, which has no correlation to how it actually is, was or should be.

 

I am of course refering to the case of the referendum, your comparison to rape is both ridiculous and quite disturbing and has no place in this discussion.

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Message 46 of 59
by: k89bpa
on: 21/01/2019 | 20:03 edited: 21/01/2019 | 20:06

@acetech wrote:

 

And how many consented to staying, was it less? Oh yes, it was, wasn't it....

Are you ever going to stop with the spin and bull**bleep** to have an honest conversation about the situation? Yes or no?

 

Are ANY of you?

 

The referendum came about because some people wanted to make a change to our relationship with the European Union, that proposed change was put to the electorate for their endorsement and consent. 

 

That's not spin, that's what actually happened.

 

17m gave their endorsement and consent to those who wished to make the change, 29m did not give their endorsement and consent to those who wished to make the change. Again, not spin but what actually happened. 

 

As for my mentioning of rape it very much does have a place in this discussion because it is a discussion about consent and if the same principles that you and people of your ilk apply globally with regards to consent then it would be perfectly acceptable to have sex with someone without first obtaining their explicit consent so long as they don't explicitly deny their consent.

 

In fact, your entire argument and the argument of those of your ilk is that as long as people don't specifically deny consent then it is fine to impose your will and your desire onto them. 

 

AND THAT IS NOT HOW CONSENT WORKS!

 

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Message 47 of 59
by: davelufc62
on: 21/01/2019 | 20:23

I voted to leave and because we are a democracy, then whatever anybody thinks is irrelevant because the country has voted to leave END OF!  I Studied government and politics at O 'level (and passed) and to be honest I don't think we should have joined in the first place but also it had stopped being "a common market place" so I believe that the EU pretty much forced our hand and that's why I believe the majority voted to leave. We certainly won't be any worse off out of the EU beurocracy I don't think  But I suppose time will tell. 

Message 48 of 59
by: acetech
on: 21/01/2019 | 20:39

@k89bpa wrote:

@acetech wrote:

 

And how many consented to staying, was it less? Oh yes, it was, wasn't it....

Are you ever going to stop with the spin and bull**bleep** to have an honest conversation about the situation? Yes or no?

 

Are ANY of you?

 

The referendum came about because some people wanted to make a change to our relationship with the European Union, that proposed change was put to the electorate for their endorsement and consent. 

 

That's not spin, that's what actually happened.

 

17m gave their endorsement and consent to those who wished to make the change, 29m did not give their endorsement and consent to those who wished to make the change. Again, not spin but what actually happened. 

 

As for my mentioning of rape it very much does have a place in this discussion because it is a discussion about consent and if the same principles that you and people of your ilk apply globally with regards to consent then it would be perfectly acceptable to have sex with someone without first obtaining their explicit consent so long as they don't explicitly deny their consent.

 

In fact, your entire argument and the argument of those of your ilk is that as long as people don't specifically deny consent then it is fine to impose your will and your desire onto them. 

 

AND THAT IS NOT HOW CONSENT WORKS!

 

I'll repeat Smiley Very Happy

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Message 49 of 59
Highlighted
by: k89bpa
on: 21/01/2019 | 20:51
Exhibit #1: acetech the bastion of intellectual debate.
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Message 50 of 59